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Is the Job Market Dying?

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Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#161

Post by spamizbad »

nytesky wrote: post #90
PheonixPharts wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest left tech for good. This is an important reality check for many people. I entered tech in 2004, during the immediate aftermath of the dotcom crash. At that time software engineers got paid well, but not insane. Additionally, every software engineer I met was passionate about writing code. Honestly, around 2019 I was really missing those days. The field has become flooded with people looking for a high payi…

I sympathize with your perspective, when most programmers were really nerds was a magical time. I do wonder if we are indulging in an “eternal September” mindset though.

I think there's a bit of generational shift at play here. Elder-millennial earnestness vs younger millennial/Gen-Z social anxious binary view of things as either "based" or "cringe" (and openly geeking out about stuff definitely fits their "cringe" definition, whereas its endearing to older millennials).

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#162

Post by nunez »

zer00eyz wrote: post #102
codethatwerks wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with #1. Not entirely but it is about perception. Working an extra 10-20 hrs a week for free in return for a chance but no guarantee of a vouch is in itself a bad deal. So while you may have reasons for working long hours, hoping someone has your back is not a great one. Unless you have known them since you were 8 or something and even then.

If you have a job and they are hiring. Two former colleagues come in. Bob: he comes in, he does his work, he goes home. He's a good productive developer. Jane: She comes in, does her work, it's always documented and well tested. She is happy to roll up her sleeves and help the people around her out. She will pause to help you even if it means she gonna finish up at home. Your boss asks you: Your call who do we hire.…

Depends on whether Bob is friends/relatives with someone in the C-suite or board.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#163

Post by nunez »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #160
fileeditview wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the company just lays off Bob and Jane and thousands of others. Now Jane is angry because she committed a lot of her personal time for the company but was laid off anyways.. Don't be Jane.

Yeah, that happens. Jane gets a new job before Bob, though.

Not at all guaranteed.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#164

Post by nunez »

beauzero wrote: post #99
acdha wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d add one other option: look outside of tech. I knew people who were hit by the dotcom bubble pretty hard but ended up getting jobs in government, academia (I left for a computational research lab myself), non-profits, and high-touch but not tech businesses (e.g. a friend bailed to a law firm - they were flush with cash but none of the partners knew how or wanted to run the IT side of things.). I’d especially add t…

I would agree with this for state work as well. Alabama, because Montgomery is super cheap, is a very good option. I will warn you though...the red tape can take a while. Fill out the paperwork or call the local contract recruiters. We find most of our people that way. They come in on contract, which I did, and convert to government. Depends on the department but once you are in it is fairly easy to move around. DOT…

Montgomery is cheap for a reason! But they definitely have lots of gov jobs down there. I'd actually recommend Huntsville (because rockets) or Birmingham (because of UAB and it having a larger economy) over Montgomery.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#165

Post by ghaff »

It's not a great tech job market generally. (Was talking to someone knowledgable yesterday and we basically agreed it's not dot-bomb nuclear winter but more like 2008, although different.)

However, the scenario described in the post (that's somewhat backed in some of the comments here) is that it's become easy enough to apply to hundreds or even a thousand or more jobs that companies are forced to apply very simple heuristics or "AI" filters (which is pretty much the same thing) to deal with the volume. This means that, for a given job, you have a near-zero chance of winning the lottery to even talk to a person.

Therefore, your only chance is pretty much to have a direct path to a human (but, because it's not a great market, that's far from a guarantee either).

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#166

Post by Der_Einzige »

anal_reactor wrote: post #148
nytesky wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with your perspective, when most programmers were really nerds was a magical time. I do wonder if we are indulging in an “eternal September” mindset though.

The times when IT department smelled like pizza, sweat, and Mountain Dew lol To be honest I don't think we'll ever go back to this. The only reason why this existed was that programming was socially unattractive, so developers self-selected to be people with certain personality characteristics. Once the society recognized the importance of IT jobs, it started pumping all sorts of people into the industry. There's no…

Don't worry, programming remains very unattractive. Where and how one gets their money matters. You can literally watch the "ick" reaction happen within fractions of a second of mentioning to them that one is working as a "software engineer".

I find that if it's not an ick, it's resentment. Normies are catching on that huge amounts of tech bros are "overpaid" (working ~10 hrs a week at a rest and vest retirement home like Microsoft), and they're becoming luddites over the impact of AI in their industries.

They call San Jose "Man Jose" for a reason. Women don't like tech-bros, and it shows.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#167

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #110
ClimaxGravely wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really a thing happening these days? Sounds horrible.

Oh, it's been happening since 2020. I was offered a few of these HireVues, but I could never finish any because the experience of speaking to a screen like it's a person is so dehumanizing. I believe one of them was from General Motors.

If they'll dehumanize you in the hiring process, what would it be like to work there?

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#168

Post by ghaff »

eru wrote: post #140
zer00eyz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been theorizing that they all get FAANG jobs now. Free everything, stock options, good pay.... Crush the competition before it gets its feet under it. It isnt that we dont have as many nerds, they are all just "locked up".

I used to work at Google (and even Facebook for a very short time). They ain't what they used to be.

To be somewhat cynical, they're big companies. Big companies have lots of process, layers of management, fiefdoms, etc. etc. Doesn't matter if you're Google, Facebook, or a big bank.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#169

Post by ghaff »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #159
M95D wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any advice for those who absolutely hate networking?

Be nice to the people you work with. If you can't do that, at least don't be a jerk. Do your job. Do it well. Your coworkers will know whose code works. When someone leaves for a new job, get a personal email. Put it in a file somewhere ( not in a work computer). That's networking. It doesn't have to be going to the bar every night with your bros from work. It can just be that people know you, know your work, and hav…

Right. I think a lot of people confuse having a network with "NETWORKING" (i.e. going to networking events, asking to have a coffee with one of the hundreds of thousands of people who went to your undergrad but you've never met, etc.). The former is useful; the latter mostly not so. Especially given that during a less-good market like we have now, a networking event is going to be filled with semi-desparate people all looking for jobs.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#170

Post by jacknews »

ohdannyboy wrote: post #105
paxys wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.

My company is hiring a senior Python dev and we've rejected at least 95% of applications so far. Many weren't even Python devs, most weren't senior (no, getting that title 2 years out of college doesn't count) and some had resumes so off-putting we just said "this person is full of shit." We actually discussed adding a survey question that read "Answer 'no' to this question" to see if they even read the page. So many…

The problem as an applicant is that after sending, say 30,40,50 carefully considered applications, spending up to several hours on each, and getting almost no response, you change tactics.

There's no point crafting a love letter which won't even be read - just stick a bunch of bullet points together and broadcast.

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