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Is the Job Market Dying?

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Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#81

Post by jacknews »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #75
zer00eyz wrote: post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

> The rest left tech for good. This is an important reality check for many people. I entered tech in 2004, during the immediate aftermath of the dotcom crash. At that time software engineers got paid well, but not insane. Additionally, every software engineer I met was passionate about writing code. Honestly, around 2019 I was really missing those days. The field has become flooded with people looking for a high payi…

Any open positions there?

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#82

Post by codethatwerks »

pokstad wrote: post #73
codethatwerks wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with #1. Not entirely but it is about perception. Working an extra 10-20 hrs a week for free in return for a chance but no guarantee of a vouch is in itself a bad deal. So while you may have reasons for working long hours, hoping someone has your back is not a great one. Unless you have known them since you were 8 or something and even then.

It’s called hustling. Not everyone makes it, but putting in extra effort improves your odds. It’s pretty amazing to me that this is now considered controversial.

Given you are happy to work say 60 hours a week, what is the optimal use of the extra 20.

For some it might be free work for their employer in return for something. Example might be in financial trading etc. to get a bonus or raise or promotion in a shop that is killing it.

For some it might be leetcode and reading everything on levels.io and teamblind.

For some it might be active investing for example property renovation.

For some a side business.

For some TOGAF and Scrum qualifications.

But remember 1000hours a year is a lot to bet on your company or colleagues vouching for you and being in a position where that matters.

Etc.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#83

Post by ZoomerCretin »

ohyes wrote: post #67
ryandrake wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negative, ghost rider. I’ve had a fairly consistent 100:10:1 application:interview:offer ratio for about 25 years, including bull and bear markets. It’s a numbers game. There is likely nothing wrong with his resume. You need to have a very wide top-of-the-funnel. There are probably a few Captains Of Industry here on HN who can send 5 resumes out and get 5 offers. These are multiple-standard-deviation outliers.

I have sent exactly 3 applications in my career and been hired 4 times.

Then you're either not American, very well-connected, or you graduated during a bull market and always had the "right" amount of experience.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#84

Post by pascalxus »

emh68 wrote: post #41
zer00eyz wrote: post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

Nope, it's different this time. 1. My entire network is struggling, even the ones who have jobs are worried. Despite being universally acclaimed and vouched for by my past coworkers, it seems to have no impact. Companies don't trust their own employees references right now. 2. Maybe this is changing, but it seems like entrepreneurship is at an all-time low. Nobody has ideas, everyone just wants to go to sleep at a co…

it has nothing to do with ideas. It's about opportunities: and right now there's not very many of those.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#85

Post by PheonixPharts »

ulfw wrote: post #66
emh68 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's different this time. 1. My entire network is struggling, even the ones who have jobs are worried. Despite being universally acclaimed and vouched for by my past coworkers, it seems to have no impact. Companies don't trust their own employees references right now. 2. Maybe this is changing, but it seems like entrepreneurship is at an all-time low. Nobody has ideas, everyone just wants to go to sleep at a co…

The only 'ideas' allowed are AI and AI if done from the ground up can only be afforded by billion dollar companies, which is why you see nvidia, microsoft, google owning most of it. The entrepreneurship of ten years ago of two dudes sitting in a house coding apps is gone.

This is not true. The one benefit of all the AI hype is that there are many small teams of smart people getting funding. Maybe in 2-5 years they'll all get acquired or go under, but right now is some of the most fun I've had in industry in a long time.

And, despite all the hype, there is a lot of unexplored stuff in this space that can be done on hardware that can be run in a home office.

Yes, it's not literally coding apps any more, but I know quite a few people working on small, funded teams having a lot of fun right now.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#86

Post by richrichie »

ryandrake wrote: post #26
cutler wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All hail our new AI overlords. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss".

SEO for resumes has been a thing for at least a decade. It’s dystopian and dehumanizing. You can only imagine how bad it is going to get when AI gets to screen, interview, and hire; totally autonomously. I’m sure companies are begging for this: cutting their entire recruiting budget would surely return at least 0.01% to the almighty shareholders.

This has been the case since professional HR came into being in tech, and people (mainly women) with no domain background were given a major role to play in shortlisting candidates.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#87

Post by MOARDONGZPLZ »

aaomidi wrote: post #38
MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 definitely tracks. My last company did lots of layoffs and the people who didn’t have a problem getting a new, maybe more senior or well paid, job were the ones that did a great job and put some oomph into their work. Absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or needing a 9-5, but the people who did reasonable work and then were unavailable after 5 are the ones that are having issues getting new jobs. I don’t think the…

People who didn't put extra effort into a job that wasn't their own is not indicative that they won't for a job that is actually their own.

Unpopular to say, but probably is relatively strongly correlated. Yeah some people will be horrible at a regular job and amazing at a CEO of their own startup job, but I bet the qualities like good time management that make one successful at a regular job are qualities that would make one successful at the other. I’m open to being completely wrong here.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#89

Post by ZoomerCretin »

paxys wrote: post #15
myth_drannon wrote: post #7

She brings an example of a person who after sending 75 applications considers changing fields. On Reddit people are sending more than 1000 applications to get a job.

If you get rejected by the first 5-10 companies you apply to then you need to take a step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, because spamming the same resume to 1000 more companies isn't going to change anything. 5 strong leads is infinitely better than 1000 weak ones.

Are you speaking from experience in a job market not in the US? This is absolutely the experience of junior engineers.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#90

Post by nytesky »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #75
zer00eyz wrote: post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

> The rest left tech for good. This is an important reality check for many people. I entered tech in 2004, during the immediate aftermath of the dotcom crash. At that time software engineers got paid well, but not insane. Additionally, every software engineer I met was passionate about writing code. Honestly, around 2019 I was really missing those days. The field has become flooded with people looking for a high payi…

I sympathize with your perspective, when most programmers were really nerds was a magical time.

I do wonder if we are indulging in an “eternal September” mindset though.

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