More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 5:11 PM UTC

Certhas wrote: post #61

tsunamifury wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes the fantasy that an IC can just magic this all away. This would likely result in a CEO with no pull and a CFO that had all the hard power to call the shots. The reality seems to be, for some reason, building profitable and safe planes in America is becoming increasingly difficult. A company most be able to do both: build a quality and safe product and make a margin. It can’t exist without revenue. I’m guessing…

No matter how profitable building good planes is, building slightly worse planes that are bought in equal numbers is more profitable. The profit maximizing move is to lower quality until sales suffer more than profitability is increased. And if you have a strong reputation, and feedback cycles on product quality are long, lower quality might take a long time to actually be noticeable in sales. Boeing profits and sale…

Post by zht » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #139

stouset wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll be happy to learn that Boeing and Airbus have roughly equivalent safety records. If you wish to fly safely, fly in countries and on airlines that observe stricter requirements on pilot training, rest, and CRM, and which are rigorous about maintaining their planes.

Which can basically be translated as avoid (especially) Africa, South East Asia (that isn't Japan or South Korea), and most of South America. Eastern Europe is a dodgy but no on the same level.

Post by OhMeadhbh » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 5:13 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #6

rossdavidh wrote: post #3

I do get the impression that the current Boeing CEO is attempting to turn the culture around, to a more "admit the problem and fix it" kind of attitude. The problem is that, if you are doing this after many years of "deny the problem and ship it", the number of apparent problems is actually going to go up for a while. I wonder if Boeing's customers and shareholders will have enough patience for him to complete the tr…

Boeing needs to dump the CEO and install someone from an engineering lineage if they want to build their reputation back. An engineering company run by a longtime manager with a background in accounting is in large part how Boeing got here. Fire the guy and get someone with a technical background in there.

Post by epcoa » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #142

epcoa wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right, the goals were in a stupid place to begin with. I see no honest reason in the scope of this discussion to make this distinction. The regionals expand the network of the majors, it’s not like they overlap. People buy and use these services just like the major airlines. The distinction is interesting in the context of comparing the relative safety of the regionals but in a discussion about general airline…

My lack of including that flight was a mistake. I was unaware that Comair was operating as a subsidiary of Delta. Still, it doesn’t really change the upshot. No manufacturer was at fault here. And even if you include this flight in the data, flying in the U.S. is safer than any other form of travel. I chose to limit it to airlines operating in the U.S. due to our generally higher expectations around maintenance, pilo…

Post by CodeWriter23 » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 5:16 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #75

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said this in a previous thread, a QA/QC/SOP firm either has a culture where nobody would dare violate SOP or it doesn’t. It’s not about “admitting” a problem, they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect. But as the QA guys where I work say, they are a cost center. There are two real questions here, can Boeing strictly follow…

> they already have the SOPs and inspection protocols that reveal defects and proscribe ways to identify, document and address any defect it's great to have those protocols, but when employees are retaliated against for bringing issues with no corrective changes made, what's the point in having the protocols?