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I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#161

Post by agentultra »

redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

I had young kids. I took my laptop to conferences and events. Performances.

Things happen in these circumstances. Drinks spill. Laptops fall from heights. Cords get pulled.

You know what happens when a MBP encounters a liquid? It depends. But one thing almost every device will have in common in such an encounter: they cannot be repaired.

You have to replace the entire mainboard. And the cost is enough that you may as well buy a new one. The rest ends up in an unlicensed dump somewhere in the global south where a kid is going to get exposed to cancer causing chemicals when they drag it out and bring it to some back alley disassembly shop.

The cost for a laptop is pretty high. Building them to be bench repairable and upgradeable help extend their useful life. As the article points out the best we can do is use them for as long as possible.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#162

Post by CraigJPerry »

Atotalnoob wrote: post #50
redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles until they have to change the motherboard, that's a lot better than having to buy an entire new laptop. It's not about keeping the same form factor forever, that's unrealistic. It's about reducing the amount of stuff you have to buy for each upgrade. Opening and closing stuff is realistic, if it's easy. I've opened and upgraded various components of…

>> So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles

I badly want the framework laptop idea to succeed - the idea of re-using your old laptop battery as a battery bank when you upgrade, that's just brilliant. The idea of taking your old motherboard and sticking it in a slim case that bolts to the vesa mount on the back of your monitor, beautiful.

However, it's far more expensive that just buying a MacBook. I bought the base model M1 Air for £999 at launch. I just sold it, what's this, 3 years later, with 90% battery life remaining for £600 plus shipping, after eBay & paypal's cut I'm £537. That's £462 for 3 years of having faster single core / interactive responsiveness than anything else at comparable price on the market.

How much more would I have had to pay over a similar time frame for a slower heavier framework with much much less battery life.

I considered the framework for this laptop cycle but instead I just traded up to a second hand 16" M1 Pro/16Gb/1Tb with 16 cycles count on the battery - i.e. brand new. Sure it's 25% slower than the equiv £2800 M2 Pro version but this cost me just £1500 delivered in pristine condition. I'm feeling very confident I'm going to come out ahead again in total cost of ownership.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#163

Post by zokier »

nperez wrote: post #48

I feel like 2010-2020 was a stagnant time for hardware, which was most visible in the lack of huge leaps in gaming console quality. AI is changing that. Having tons of RAM and VRAM really does open up options that would simply be impossible before. Running large AI models locally is a bit niche right now but I'm doubtful it will stay that way, so I say it's a good time to value bleeding edge machines

2010-2020 includes the launches of Intels Sandy Bridge (and to lesser degree Haswell) and AMD Zen (and with it Threadripper), many great products from nvidia (980, 1080, RTX, Titan). 2010s were also the decade of Apple Silicon, mostly on mobile though but culminating on M1 launch in 2020. In 2010 SSDs were just becoming a thing, but were still pretty anemic small sata ones with notoriously buggy firmwares, no comparison to modern-day nvme drives. And finally, after decades of stagnation, in 2010s we saw great improvements in displays, both getting hidpi, hdr, and larger gamuts.

Sure, it might pale in comparison to the absolute wild ride that were the 90s, but I would not call 2010s stagnant as a whole.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#164

Post by kevinh456 »

agentultra wrote: post #161
redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

I had young kids. I took my laptop to conferences and events. Performances. Things happen in these circumstances. Drinks spill. Laptops fall from heights. Cords get pulled. You know what happens when a MBP encounters a liquid? It depends. But one thing almost every device will have in common in such an encounter: they cannot be repaired. You have to replace the entire mainboard. And the cost is enough that you may as…

This is part of why Apple is pushing trade in when you buy a new device. They recycle it.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#165

Post by Crywastaken »

Apple is a business first and formost. Software closing to replace the same part with different id is trash. more money to them

looking back what mac have is it closer to Linux than win (I know subsystem Linux exist) - Linux is but Programs is key for market You can't import ios apps to win It's monolith

Unix system and then modules for desktop etc (hmm it wouldn't work how I imagine) /

Animation is a problem Graphics 4k Before you click then need to be spectrum of color time to react to do a function it's weird you didn't speed this too much features bare bones isn't great either Hmm

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#166

Post by Crywastaken »

Crywastaken wrote: post #151
ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is nothing wrong with investing in equipment. I think there is something wasteful with replacing a laptop every year. Unless its some crazy jump in hardware between cpu/gpu generations that you weren't in sync for.

You can sell your mac every year then upgrade don't cost full price

[flagged]

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#167

Post by luciusdomitius »

simfree wrote: post #62
luciusdomitius wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used to be. I am writing this from the above-mentioned T480. It is 3 years old, has both usb-c ports replaced, small crack on the backside of the screen and the keyboard zif is broken, so the tape cable is... well taped to the connector. On the other hand my X200, T420, T450 are still in mint condition. To be completely fair, modern macs are also way off from well-built. Shiny yes, but sturdy is the last thing I…

It really is a shame that the USB C ports are not modular on newer ThinkPads, you basically have to send the laptop for board work to get them replaced once the USB C ports go.

Not really, I had mine replaced at revolt.bg for about 60 EUR, both labour and spares. Miraculously, they had both of them on stock, so it was a Thurday to Wednesday job. Massive respect to those guys.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#168

Post by robocat »

ripply wrote: post #116
redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

The framework laptops definitely run hot, I gave up on mine because it would overheat several times a day throttling down to 200Mhz. It sits in a box unused now and I consider it ewaste, I don't have the time or patience to bother with it anymore. I reached out to support maybe 6+ months ago but I haven't finished following their instructions because the laptop was just so bad and I wasted so much time dealing with i…

> I consider it ewaste

Leave it in a box in a cupboard and it is. Give it to somebody who will use it (at the next time you are hanging with geeks) and it isn’t e-waste. Offer it for free pickup next Framework thread - somebody wants it enough to not cost you more time than a drive format.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#169

Post by a1o »

jwcooper wrote: post #42
rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

This is what Framework set out to do (and is pulling it off so far...I'm typing this out on my 12th gen framework). They have an entire marketplace of replacement parts you can buy, including screens. They've even got battery upgrades (increased capacity), better speakers, new screen type (matte) that you can retrofit into your existing Framework. They support upgrading from their first gen laptop (admittedly they ar…

I wish something like Framework could be more popular so it could be easily available on other countries. As is, the impact something like it is small. Hopefully this changes at some point.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#170

Post by cbzoiav »

kibwen wrote: post #83
redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

> a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18 At what point do battery improvements become completely unnecessary? Who's out here using their laptops for 18 hours continuously? It's like an electric car that can go 2,000 miles on a single charge; YAGNI. The vast majority of people would be perfectly well-served by a smaller, lighter, less expensive laptop that cuts down the battery to just 10 hours…

Or even the older setups where you had a relatively small battery in the device and a bigger wedge shaped battery that could clip on the bottom.

Or there were a couple of devices with dual battery slots so you could hot swap.

Then on odd occasions when you need it just take the extra battery/ies.

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