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I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#121

Post by dijit »

photonerd wrote: post #109
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what he means by "Laptops don't change". He means > A 2015 research paper discovered that the embodied energy of laptops is static over time. > Improvements in functionality balance the efficiency gains obtained in the manufacturing process. Battery mass, memory, and hard disk drive mass decreased per unit of functionality but showed roughly constant totals per year. > New laptops may be more energy-effic…

So… you can do more, faster, for longer, then? Sounds like a good argument for upgrading

Until software causes performance improvements not to be worthwhile.

Though nobody can argue that battery lives haven't improved.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#122

Post by chasil »

tengbretson wrote: post #112
chasil wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well-known that planar transistors are more reliable than FINFET. It is usually agreed that the end of planar transistors was the last process node of 28 nanometers. Everything below this (14, 10, 7, 5, 3, and 2 nanometers so far) is less reliable. The fastest, lowest power, and most reliable CPU in a laptop will be on a 28nm process node. Everything beyond this sacrifices reliability for speed and lower power.…

The failure rate of CPUs could go up 10x and it would still be a rounding error when quantifying what causes laptops to be decommissioned.

A quick check of Google shows that TSMC does have a 16nm finfet process that is tested and approved for use in automobiles, which is a much more punishing environment than laptops or phones.

As a measure of redundancy, multiple finfet transistors can be wired together to act as one. It would not surprise me if this was heavily exploited in automobile applications.

https://electronics360.globalspec.com/article/16795/2-automo...

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#123

Post by ido »

rpcope1 wrote: post #13
ido wrote: post #5

Nice. Now try to do the same as (some types of) programmer or 3d modeller or video editor. The newest MacBook with an M2 chip compiles and runs my projects drastically faster than the 2015 Dell XPS Skylake-i7 laptop I used to have and the GPU on the M2 is so ridiculously more powerful it's like going from 3dfx voodoo to a modern GPU.

At that point, I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't just step up to a desktop workstation?

Honestly, the new MacBooks are faster than any desktop I ever had - I don't feel a need to sacrifice mobility for more than that.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#124

Post by fuzztester »

rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

>For both my Dell and Supermicro workstations, they basically last 10+ years, and I've got a lot of options to keep them going; I wish I could say the same about laptops. I really wish I could get a new 2k screen for the old Dell Latitude E6530 I have -- it's built a lot more robustly than my newer latitude.

Agreed. When I was checking out new laptops to buy one, in shops, about a year ago, I was shocked to see the lower quality and sturdiness of the cases and keyboards. For no apparent gain except possible lightness.

I think laptop makers have started doing an auto industry in terms of built in or planned obsolescence.

Edit: just like mobile phone makers.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#125

Post by ImPleadThe5th »

cj wrote: post #105
ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually buy a new laptop every year? I feel that's a bit delusional. Year to year most upgrades are pretty minor. An argument can be made maybe every 3 years if you're doing some incredibly resource intense stuff.

What’s delusional is highly paid engineers not investing money in essential tools to get their work done. A new laptop is 1-2% of the annual salary of many people here.

I think there is nothing wrong with investing in equipment. I think there is something wasteful with replacing a laptop every year.

Unless its some crazy jump in hardware between cpu/gpu generations that you weren't in sync for.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#126

Post by eimrine »

I use a Core2Duo laptop on a regular basis and all my tasks are met except of poor battery life. More cores does not give me such a boost as migration from a single-core Pentium 4. I still use Windows 7 on half of my machines as the best OS in my life ever but I am migrating on GNU/Systemd/Linux on all new laptops because Windows 7 is as much vendor's presence as I tolerate.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#127

Post by ido »

BowBun wrote: post #51
ido wrote: post #5

Nice. Now try to do the same as (some types of) programmer or 3d modeller or video editor. The newest MacBook with an M2 chip compiles and runs my projects drastically faster than the 2015 Dell XPS Skylake-i7 laptop I used to have and the GPU on the M2 is so ridiculously more powerful it's like going from 3dfx voodoo to a modern GPU.

Did you read the article? The author is, well, an author. They don't program or 3d model. Computation sped wasn't even mentioned in the point they were making. I guess I don't see the reason to read an article about a specific use-case/point of view, only to follow up and say, "yeah well it wouldn't work for this completely different thing you weren't talking about". It's not the 'gotcha' you think it is.

I'm not trying to make a any gotchas. Yes, if all you need is MS Word and a web browser you can use a 10-15 years old laptop, I don't think this surprises anyone here (in fact its why most people these days use phones instead of PCs to do most of their internet browsing).

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#128

Post by cache_hit »

rozenmd wrote: post #7

ThinkPads are absolutely magic. Here's one I built for travelling: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t...

They really are. For example, I have a P53s (basically a renamed T590) that will randomly clock the i7 CPU it came with down to 400MHz under active use for extended periods of time, and I can't run anything that actually uses the cores on the i7 for more than a minute without hitting the 95 degree PROCHOT. The dedicated GPU also will clock itself down to 100MHz and shift the termal throttling range from 75 degrees to 65 degrees randomly, on a system with a single fan cooling solution.

Just magical, and I can't wait to see Lenovo's next trick.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#130

Post by ImPleadThe5th »

kristopolous wrote: post #103
ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually buy a new laptop every year? I feel that's a bit delusional. Year to year most upgrades are pretty minor. An argument can be made maybe every 3 years if you're doing some incredibly resource intense stuff.

> Year to year most upgrades are pretty minor. Really this depends on the year. We're in a more chunked paradigm now when significant progress is happening more intermittently. That doesn't mean buy new. Wait it out a year or two and buy used. Some years matter. Most don't. You can exploit this.

Fair, and I agree. Especially if you're out of sync with the CPU/GPU upgrade cycle.

But even then the odds it will have a major impact on most workloads is very unlikely.

I think as tech people we tend to try to maximize when there is no need.

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