I stopped buying new laptops (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#41

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #25

I mean... you can save a few bucks on a laptop. Sure. But the real cost is the downtime. If I have an employee that I value at $100,000 a year, working 1800 hours, that's $55 / hour. Assuming their work doesn't impact anyone else, it would be silly for me to take that employee out of commission for any expense that costs less than $440 / day. Way smarter for me to buy a new laptop, which is less likely to have any is…

> Way smarter for me to buy a new laptop, which is less likely to have any issues

I don't think that's a safe assumption.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#42

Post by jwcooper » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

This is what Framework set out to do (and is pulling it off so far...I'm typing this out on my 12th gen framework). They have an entire marketplace of replacement parts you can buy, including screens.

They've even got battery upgrades (increased capacity), better speakers, new screen type (matte) that you can retrofit into your existing Framework.

They support upgrading from their first gen laptop (admittedly they are a very young company, but their promise has held up thus far).

Hopefully more folks that are interested in upgradability and repairability are purchasing frameworks to show other companies that it's worth it to do (I'm unaffiliated with Framework, just a customer).

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#43

Post by smoldesu » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

> 3 hour battery life.

Maybe if "laptops don't change", sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuw-YpbFkkM

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#44

Post by JEDI-HACKER » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#45

Post by go_prodev » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

Casteil wrote: post #24

rpcope1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point, I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't just step up to a desktop workstation?

Err, mobility? M1 / M2 Pro MBPs pack a serious punch... and they don't have to sacrifice battery life to do so - they smoke virtually all other laptops in terms of battery life.

Battery life gets mentioned quite often with laptops, but is it still really that important?

I run my business from an X1 Carbon, but it's more about portability than battery life. Trains, planes, Starbucks all have power available so it's constantly plugged in and I can't remember the last time I used it on battery for more than an hour.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#46

Post by redroyal » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:30 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #43

redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

> 3 hour battery life. Maybe if "laptops don't change", sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuw-YpbFkkM

Using the modular GPU

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#47

Post by gremlinunderway » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

If you read the rest of the site, you would see that the argument against not buying a new laptop every year is to find ways to lower the insane amount of electronics waste we're generating any single year.

It's not just about lack of features, it's also just ridiculously wasteful even for an industry already known for it. At least my PC, I'm just swapping out parts for upgrades. I'm not dumping my entire PC tower in the garbage every few years.

We're so goddamn lucky that PCs haven't become these disposable machines like every other piece of tech out there. Video game consoles, phones and laptops are just the worst for this and while it's cheaper in the short term, the costs are there we just don't see them.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#48

Post by nperez » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:33 PM UTC

I feel like 2010-2020 was a stagnant time for hardware, which was most visible in the lack of huge leaps in gaming console quality. AI is changing that. Having tons of RAM and VRAM really does open up options that would simply be impossible before.

Running large AI models locally is a bit niche right now but I'm doubtful it will stay that way, so I say it's a good time to value bleeding edge machines

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#49

Post by Tade0 » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

> According to the most recent life cycle analysis, it takes 3,010 to 4,340 megajoules of primary energy to make a laptop

4340 MJ is around 135 litres of gasoline in terms of primary energy, or a little less than 36 US gallons.

Commuters blow through this much in 1-2 months, depending on distance.

My point is that if you're concerned about embedded energy, there's a lot of other, lower hanging fruit to pick.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#50

Post by Atotalnoob » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles until they have to change the motherboard, that's a lot better than having to buy an entire new laptop.

It's not about keeping the same form factor forever, that's unrealistic. It's about reducing the amount of stuff you have to buy for each upgrade.

Opening and closing stuff is realistic, if it's easy.

I've opened and upgraded various components of my steam deck half a dozen times in the last 6 months.

It's reduce, reuse, recycle.

I don't own a framework.