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Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

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Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#161

Post by geodel »

potamic wrote: post #27
jmann99999 wrote: post #5

I have very little understanding of India. While reading the article, it sounds like the changes to Indian labor law would enable more hours to be worked. However, I don't understand whether this is a good or bad thing for the average worker (and/or woman) in India. Can someone provide more insight? Thanks.

It's terrible for the workers, because currently they get overtime pay beyond 9 hours, this law effectively reduces overtime by 3 hours. Women also play a bigger role in running the household, and with 12-hour shifts plus commute time, this must take a big toll on the family.

Well family is the last thing on mind for Economic planners and political class. They have this cartoonish belief that they can beat China by having worse labor laws on workers' welfare.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#162

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #106
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of when people in China were expected to work on Saturdays back in 1999. Developing countries often require 48 hours a week as a way of catching up.

1999? This was news in 2019. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system

Ya, it is still common in some tech companies, but it was ubiquitous in 1999. By the time I started working in China (not for Alibaba) in 2007, it was not a mandatory practice anymore. China had changed a lot in just 8 years.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#163

Post by renewiltord »

e12e wrote: post #10
glogla wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previous was max shift of 9 hours and max overtime of 75 hours per three months. Now it is 12 hour shifts with 145 hours of overtime per three months. So yeah, this comes at 5x12 shifts.

A point of comparison - in Norway employers need special dispensation to have workers work more than 100 hours overtime per year (with max 40 regular hours/week and five weeks paid vacation time).

True, but Norway is an oil nation.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#164

Post by georgebcrawford »

lostlogin wrote: post #148
snozolli wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors While making $30 billion in profit for the first quarter of 2023. Apparently, this disappointed Wall Street, because they made $34.6 billion in Q1 2022. So, time to squeeze the vise on the little people. Also, they have $165 billion in cash and securities. Maybe they coul…

> vise Alternative spelling of vice. News to me.

It's the American spelling.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#165

Post by YeahNO »

mrguyorama wrote: post #134
dcow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because some people don't want to work more than 8 hours a day we must prevent everybody from working more than 8 hours a day because it will inevitably spiral into a race to the bottom? That's rhetorically pretty loose. Do we have that problem in the US? No. I don't believe this race to the bottom actually exists. Companies need all sorts of labor. Diversity of labor is good.

>No. I don't believe this race to the bottom actually exists. There are literally companies using child labor in the US RIGHT NOW, and a huge argument against increasing minimum wage is that "they are jobs for teens and teens don't need that much money" so desperate (or privileged enough in their position to not need to demand more) people are depressing wages in the US currently.

You are 100% spot on. States are weakening worker and child protection laws around the country. Destroying oversight of child protection: no need to check that kids are at least 16 before they are hired in Arkansas. Ohio Reps want to let 14 year olds work year round until 9pm each day. Iowa wants to let 14 year olds work in meatpacking plants AND indemnify companies from liability if the child is injured or killed at work, isn't that just grand?

Minnesota trails with a bill to let 16 year olds work on construction sites. Do I hear 14? 13? How much for 12? Why any age at all? If a baby can swing a hammer, then what right does the man in Washington have to stop him? Is that baby not entitled to the sweat of his brow? I say YES! And if that baby should fall off a ladder dragging a square of tiles behind him, should the company not be protected from liability for it was that baby's own fault? I say YES, most emphatically! /s

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#166

Post by fnordpiglet »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #156
fnordpiglet wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate legal requirement to maximize shareholder value makes their behavior gas like, they’ll expand to fill all possible space and permeate any advantageous cracks. It’s counter productive and contrary to reality to pick on any one company for behaving as they’re legally obligated to do. The issue isn’t apple, the issue is governments that allow behavior we can’t accept by corporations. The way to prevent a gas f…

have you considered that both state and capital are the problem?

Capital follows the state. The fact that capital also often guides the state is a flaw of the state. Capital is just people doing the job they were hired to do, often in a corporate framework, legally obliged to maximize profit and shareholder value. There’s definitely a feedback cycle, but the source of all control and governance is the guys with the guns and prisons.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#167

Post by fnordpiglet »

YeahNO wrote: post #131
fnordpiglet wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit

And it isn't for the peons doing all the work...

Well……. The peons need to feed their kids and send them to school and shelter their families. So, yes, actually it is for them too. 12 hour shift jobs usually pay better and have longer contiguous time off. But, yes, these are all happy side effects. Profit doesn’t give a shit, and if it could find a way to get the same for less it would.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#168

Post by tpmx »

ROTMetro wrote: post #142
tpmx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main takeaway is that India (well, in the state of Karnataka, population 64M) now allows 60 hour work weeks for non-salaried people of both genders. Not as an exception, but as an average. And that Apple was behind this. It's pretty hard to view this as a positive change.

Ding ding ding! Crazy people don't get this and defend this as totally normal ignoring this company has actual suicide prevention nets to prevent their employees from killing themselves because the companies employment practices at that friggen aweful!

I have no idea what those things have to do with what I just wrote but I love your enthusiasm.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#170

Post by bon-98 »

chitowneats wrote: post #160
jdthedisciple wrote: post #96

"Yayy women can finally be away from darned prison that we call home for 12 hours a day and even at night to do some bullshit job to help some idiot get a little richer yasss let's celebrate wohoo"

I take back my other comment. I don't eagerly await any responses from you. Your comments are childish. Get off HN and go enjoy your 20s. If by chance you are older than that, grow up. No one is forcing anyone to work 12 hour days. It's about allowing it should a woman choose to accept the position. I get your angle now. Trad nonsense.

Hopefully he isn't working in India on a 13 hour schedule lest he shall be able to enjoy his 20s. Just pay the worker a fair wage and they won't be pressured or expected to work these long shifts (which is what we all know is REALLY going on.) Putting pressure on The Corporation is asking too much, right?
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