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Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

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Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#101
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terrible for the workers, because currently they get overtime pay beyond 9 hours, this law effectively reduces overtime by 3 hours. Women also play a bigger role in running the household, and with 12-hour shifts plus commute time, this must take a big toll on the family.

These are - relatively - good jobs, right?

They would be better if each person worked fewer hours so more people could have jobs and demand higher pay.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#102

My mom works 12 hour shifts as a CNC machinist in the United States. Is there some point to this article or is it just neat to know?

Does she work more than 40 hours / week? If so, she very likely gets paid 1.5x for any hours worked above 40. Do you think Apple and Foxconn are paying Indian women time and a half for hours above 40? That said, I'm nearly 100% certain that these women would rather have these jobs working in a clean facility than the alternative.

They have 48 h weeks and the ability to add an extra 50 hours per month.

There's a name for places with a 60 hour work week: they are called sweat shops.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#103

I don't get this. Why push your work force like this? It's clearly very bad for the workers. And also for the factory, surely having 3 shifts is more efficient because your workers are not as fatigued so will work faster with fewer mistakes?

You see this in hospitals too and I believe the rational there is that you want to reduce the number of shift changes. In a manufacturing context where you might need to shut down the line in order to change shifts it might be a big money saver to only have to do that twice a day even if you're paying out overtime.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#104

I don't get this. Why push your work force like this? It's clearly very bad for the workers. And also for the factory, surely having 3 shifts is more efficient because your workers are not as fatigued so will work faster with fewer mistakes?

When workers work longer hours, employers can lower wages due to higher labor supply.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#105
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that "most modern countries" don't make exceptions for work that requires it or critical fields. In fact, those of us who've worked non-traditional shifts usually get some perk out of it. When I worked 12 hour shifts I'd work 3-5 days in a row, then get the same amount of days off. To this day 5 days on 5 days off is the best schedule I've ever had. I also had a friend working in mines up north in Can…

Is there anything about sitting in a line manufacturing electronics that requires 12 hours shifts?

Profit

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#106
post #78

In addition to the 12 hour shift for all, and night shifts being allowed for women, there is still a 48 hour workweek, and maximum overtime of 145 hours in a 3 month period (an average of one extra 12 hour shift per week). Indian employers are required to pay double for overtime, so this seems mostly like the ability to move to 12x4 instead of 8x6. From an Indian minister: > “Now, the rule is that workers should work…

This reminds me of when people in China were expected to work on Saturdays back in 1999. Developing countries often require 48 hours a week as a way of catching up.

1999? This was news in 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that half your workforce doesn't have an opportunity to contribute to the country's growth? I mean, cut the US or Europe's output by 25-30% (to match India's low female participation) and you're basically talking about eliminating decades of growth. People would be so much poorer and worse off. And that's just at the national level. There are a whole lot of other issues at the individual level, and the fact…

Is a nations prosperity only related to its nominal growth and GDP? Then why don't we send more children to work as well to increase "growth" a bit further? Are there no tradeoffs involved? Like what it does to a country's demographics and families? Are there other ways to increase GDP without forcing women into the workforce - with potentially better tradeoffs?

Especially when a bunch of that extra income just goes to childcare and services to make up for having less time to manage the house. And then much of the rest is eaten in competition for housing, with prices increased by all the extra money from those second incomes.

I'm skeptical that we'd be much worse off, in actual experienced fact, if the norm were single-income households. I wouldn't be surprised if measures of contentment or happiness actually increased, overall.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#108
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that "most modern countries" don't make exceptions for work that requires it or critical fields. In fact, those of us who've worked non-traditional shifts usually get some perk out of it. When I worked 12 hour shifts I'd work 3-5 days in a row, then get the same amount of days off. To this day 5 days on 5 days off is the best schedule I've ever had. I also had a friend working in mines up north in Can…

Is there anything about sitting in a line manufacturing electronics that requires 12 hours shifts?

I never worked in a line, but have seen a lot of antiwork discussions, and also the discussions on commute ... I know 12 hour shifts are arduous, but you do 12 hour shifts for 4 days then on one hand you reduce 1-2 days of commute, and on the other hand maybe you can commute at better commute hours.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#110
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no expert on this but there’s a long history in the fight for an 8 hour work day. Many people (myself included) think we should move to even shorter workdays, or shorter work weeks. I like the slogan they had: “8 hours for sleep, 8 hours for work, 8 hours for what we will” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

Nobody is forcing anybody to work 12 hours a day?

Except most tech and quant jobs I’ve had where 80 hour work weeks are expected, but not required. It’s really only required if you want to keep your job.
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