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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#161

Post by LinuxBender »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #128
LinuxBender wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've given me something to go do. I've never visited the reservation near me. [1] If they are unaware of the wood cutting permits [2] I will show them. [1] - https://windriver.org/destinations/wind-river-indian-reserva... [2] - https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbr/passes-permits/forestprod...

Consider reaching out to your local congressional reps to get some appropriation done where reservation folks are contacted to inform them of their right to the resources and automatically provide the wood cutting permits if done for personal/tribal use. Happy to provide assistance.

I will first reach out to the reservation to learn more about it before I jump to any conclusions. I prefer to speak to the people that live in an area. It may turn out they have everything they need. But I will keep your offer in mind if it turns out things are in a bad state of affairs.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#162

Post by toomuchtodo »

bombcar wrote: post #143
kranke155 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is peak HN contrarianism. “How come they didn’t prepare better for a brutal winter” Is the new “Dropbox will never work”

I suspect that most HN commentators do NOT know exactly how close to starvation and freezing and death they are (you can sit down and calculate it based on which assumptions could fail) but in the places where it gets cold you may be days or less if power fails. If your furnace can’t run without electricity how long does your house stay habitable? What backup heat do you have? If the gas lines are flowing you might b…

I really love your comment because it helps reframe the requirements gathering and solutioning process (as well as the constraints you're operating within) for an audience that, under the right circumstances, can effectively direct their engineering experience and knowledge to solve real world problems.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#163

Post by fencepost »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #60
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? It's a real big mystery isn't it.

>Yes, why aren't these people self sufficient after we took away all their means of self sufficiency? This sounds very much like "racism of low expectations". "These people" are just as self-sufficient as any other group of modern people of similar socioeconomic background. It's been 100+ years since they were mistreated in any serious fashion. I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were se…

I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were serfs, only a rung or two above chattel slaves on the ladder of human condition.

50 years ago a lot of their descendants in the Eastern Bloc countries were probably still in that condition or in the USSR factory worker equivalent.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#164

Post by imoverclocked »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #160
Ntrails wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> genetic-exacerbated substance abuse Could you expand on this a bit? Not a concept I am familiar with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_Native_Americans#G... Alcoholism rates among Native Americans is higher than most groups, which leads some to suspect a genetic reason. Currently, there isn't a ton of evidence supporting that idea.

There is also severe distrust of western medicine and science in many Native American communities which makes doing studies hard.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#165

Post by throw_nbvc1234 »

nottorp wrote: post #43
epistasis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because they are both accurate descriptions, but "global warming" is talking about the average temp. Even as the average goes up, the standard deviation could change too, meaning that even with higher average temp, there can be bigger and colder winter storms, which are balanced out by even higher temps the rest of the time.

There were studies 10-20 years ago predicting that global warming will bring with it completely unpredictable weather and harsher extremes in both directions.

Do any governments or institutions have a live(ish) updating model of "what would happen" if trends continue? People reference studies all the time but what's the currently accepted model/outcome in the scientific community?

I remember hearing that melting of the ice caps will stop current flows in the ocean and bring about an ice age. Is that actually a thing or just fake news?

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#166

Post by bumby »

anderber wrote: post #79
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

> there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise That's not how global warming works. It's not a "everywhere will go up 1 degree". It causes more extremes. Hot places can get hotter, cold places colder, but overall, the average goes up.

The most intuitive way I've heard it explained is that of a long-tailed bell-curve. The mean temperature may only move a few degrees but it causes a more dramatic relative increase in the amount of area under the extreme values.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#167

Post by aaomidi »

Ntrails wrote: post #146
imglorp wrote: post #134

For some context from someone who's been on that Res, its population is highly vulnerable with no margin for mishaps. It's a place of generational, crushing poverty, crime, illness, genetic-exacerbated substance abuse, broad lack of economic opportunity, cultural isolation, and federal disinvestment. Free federal healthcare is available, but only at an IHS hospital in Rapid City 1.5 hours away in good weather: it's a…

> genetic-exacerbated substance abuse Could you expand on this a bit? Not a concept I am familiar with

Not exactly what you’re asking but there’s also a concept of genetic trauma, where some traumas can fundamentally change your offspring.

For example, your grandmother from your moms side technically made the egg cells that you were born from. That means that whatever your grandmother was going through could for example pass on all the way down to you.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#168

Post by landemva »

llamaimperative wrote: post #11
kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

"their languages" were recognized as unique and useful in 1950s. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/american-indi...

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#169

Post by boomboomsubban »

LinuxBender wrote: post #155
boomboomsubban wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like the Wind River reservation is quite some distance from the Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest, I don't think ignorance of the permits is their problem.

There are other areas to cut wood. They don't list all of them. The local forestry office may be able to provide closer locations. For example, there is a designated area just a few miles from me but it is not listed on any of the forestry websites. I listed that page to show the permitting process, restrictions and costs. As toomuchtodo pointed out, it may even be free in their case.

There's a good chance that few of those areas are on the reservation, which often were picked to be the worst land in the region. So many still may not live within a convenient distance of an area for wood.

Plus, even if they do live near a forest, I'm not sure if the Forest Service would have jurisdiction. It's possible the tribe has the rights, or the BIA handles it.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#170

Post by jcoder »

rightbyte wrote: post #69
cloudify wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m likely astounded some people are not aware that not every women can breastfeed their children

I don't think one should be angry at people that are wrong. I mean, unless he asked and someone told him he might have gone around thinking they choose to let the baby starve etc.

Astounded != angry does it?
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