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Brave launches private search ads

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Re: Brave launches private search ads

#161

Post by danskeren »

gabeio wrote: post #88
mind-blight wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem really cool. But, I was reading the FAQ, and they claim it costs about $1 to process 80 searches. That seems extremely high. I would have expected that the up-front cost of creating and storing indexes is very expensive, but the cost of user searches to be so low that they're nearly negligible. Okay, it sounds like they lose money with each new added user

I believe they are doing some search aggregation from multiple sources and from what they say they do not seem to be caching results much.

API's that charge by usage usually have terms that prevent caching API results. This also applies to Bing:

> You must use results you obtain through the Services only in Internet Search Experiences (as defined in the use and display requirements) and must not cache or copy results. (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/bing/apis/legal)

It's really unfortunate Microsoft doesn't provide a free API that require users to display ads, or at the very least make their ad network accessible to all.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#162

Post by uoaei »

yucky wrote: post #113
travisgriggs wrote: post #105

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are ke…

> But I don't see how they increase the free and open exchange of information on the web. I think I can help explain. Almost all search engine users (~95%+) only scan the first 10-20 results on a query, and those results are dominated by sites that have the budget to spend on SEO. Buying ads gives other voices a chance to break through. Depending on the niche it can be far more expensive to be on the first page of se…

Ads give other voices with money to spend a chance to break through. This is very far from anything relevant either to "free" or "open" web interactions.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#163

Post by autoexec »

logicalmonster wrote: post #146
satvikpendem wrote: post #74

After all the Brave controversies [0] I'm not sure why anyone uses Brave anymore. They took creators' money while ostensibly "collecting" it for them, and they inserted their own affiliate links when you visited certain sites. It's just shady behavior all around. I mean, when you have your own "Controversies" section on Wikipedia, you know there's something wrong. Especially with Manifest v3 looming which would kill…

> After all the Brave controversies "Brave's controversies" are not really about Brave. Brave as a company is not above criticism and should be harshly gone after for their mistakes when they do anything less than perfect with regards to privacy or anything else. I think they've done over 90% of things right, but have screwed up a small portion of the complicated stuff (new browser, new online advertising models, and…

> "Brave's controversies" are not really about Brave.

Which of Brave's controversies listed on Wikipedia aren't about Brave because they are about Brendan Eich's political beliefs? I have no idea what his political beliefs are, but while I can accept the possibility that they may put Brave under additional scrutiny the problems people have had with Brave are real.

I think it'd be wrong to dismiss their controversies as being purely the product of a "culture war" even if some people's hate for Brendan might help promote awareness of those same controversies.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#164

Post by autoexec »

INeedMoreRam wrote: post #75
musk_micropenis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> either you allow Brave to leak your info to advertisers Can you expand on this? According to the article the ads are privacy-preserving but I'm open to hearing otherwise. There's not a lot of detail in the article.

Assuming we can trust Brave, the article clearly states: "Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads, and does not keep any kind of profile of your searches." My question to somebody who understands this more than me, by collecting query, country, device type, is that enough info to identify users? Doesn't Brave automatically get User Agent strings, too?

> My question to somebody who understands this more than me, by collecting query, country, device type, is that enough info to identify users?

Collecting search queries alone is enough to identify users. see: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/technology/09aol.html

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#165

Post by greyface- »

Archipelagia wrote: post #41

Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular…

Make it a 501(c)(3) non-profit, like the Internet Archive or Wikipedia.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#166

Post by pythux »

comte7092 wrote: post #121

Possibly a completely dumb idea, but I’ve wondered for a while if there would be value in building an open data web index, something which would allow competing providers to offer different search algorithms on top of. I don’t know enough about the technical details about building a search engine, so perhaps this isn’t feasible because the algorithm and the index need to be tightly coupled to each other, but my hunch…

You might like Goggles (also a Brave feature): https://search.brave.com/help/goggles

Disclaimer: I work at Brave.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#167

Post by INeedMoreRam »

puchatek wrote: post #97
Archipelagia wrote: post #41

Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular…

I would pay Google 30 just for search+maps of it came without tracking and ads

My solution is using uBlock Origin without signing in to Google and a VPN.

I'm not concerned about ads because I literally never see them.

And uBlock blocks the tracking.

Do you not use uBlock Origin? https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpa...

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#168

Post by autoexec »

zagrebian wrote: post #95
pocketarc wrote: post #13

Ads seem to be a modern virus that infects everything. Everyone who claims "no ads", eventually turns their back on that once they get big enough, even companies with more than enough money from their own products (e.g. Apple, Netflix). I've never seen anything so powerful. I guess it comes down to "no business would say no to free money", but it really is incredible.

Modern? When I grew up in the ’90s, ads were everywhere: in the magazines I was reading, on TV, on billboards, in the mail. How can you call ads a modern virus?

Ads aren't a new thing, but the it's been allowed to spread unchecked and unregulated in ways that were simply not possible in the 90s causing new problems.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#169

Post by SebastianKra »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #145
travisgriggs wrote: post #105

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are ke…

> If I sat down with a troubled couple who was having a hard time communicating, I wouldn't periodically interrupt and say "let's pause a moment for an ad. I think that's going to really open up a better and more free exchange between the both of you." Couples counseling isn't free, maybe with ads they could be. I mean obviously not, but only because a professional counselor can only see about 8 couples per day while…

I hate that ads are now seen as a necessary evil for funding free access to services. The money still comes from you, just through the purchase of products.

What's worse, if you pay for YouTube Premium or Kagi, you're effectively paying for your content twice. No wonder, poorer people can't afford that.

I guess you could frame it like this: "Company are overcharging us by insane amounts anyways, so at least some of that money goes back into something useful through ads."

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#170

Post by antonok »

Barrin92 wrote: post #27
mattboardman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave has never tried to be ad free. Instead the goal is to encourage less intrusive and more benign ads.

hard to see how that meaningfully differentiates them from everyone else given that this is what all the ad platforms seem to be moving towards with topic/cohort based ads and third party cookies on the way out.

Brave's been blocking third-party cookies from the beginning; Firefox and Safari followed in 2019 and 2020 respectively. Third party cookies might not have been on the way out if Brave hadn't taken that first step already.
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