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Brave launches private search ads

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Re: Brave launches private search ads

#141

Post by [deleted] »

dismalpedigree wrote: post #138
hunterb123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never opened a newspaper up to the classifieds? Those are ads. You may not know of a tree cutting service until you look there. You may not know where to get a car part until you look there. Having ads riddled throughout the internet is one thing, but having a directory where ads are supposed to be is another. Yes billboards are annoying, that doesn't make classifieds equal. (oh and you could just pay $3/mo or…

If ads are truly so useful, perhaps they should withhold them unless you pay $3/mo. Oh right. They are a negative user experience and bring revenue in without providing any value (possibly negative value) to the user. Nothing groundbreaking here, but lets not pretend this is anything but a money grab.

[deleted]

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#143

Post by cpeterso »

titzer wrote: post #107
btbuildem wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist isn't free -- there are certain categories (like job postings in some areas) that are paid. This subsidizes the entire service. Craigslist has indeed done very, very well. They've maintained a useful service, ad-free, for decades. Made a ton of money doing it, too.

Their secret is they did not try to grow at an insane rate. They have 50 employees and over $650 million in revenue. The revenue per employee is over $13 million. The reason the giants are giant is because they are driven to become giant by people and investors who want to become billionaires.

Could Craigslist have been as successful if it launched today, instead of 1996?

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#144

Post by ipaddr »

dismalpedigree wrote: post #138
hunterb123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never opened a newspaper up to the classifieds? Those are ads. You may not know of a tree cutting service until you look there. You may not know where to get a car part until you look there. Having ads riddled throughout the internet is one thing, but having a directory where ads are supposed to be is another. Yes billboards are annoying, that doesn't make classifieds equal. (oh and you could just pay $3/mo or…

If ads are truly so useful, perhaps they should withhold them unless you pay $3/mo. Oh right. They are a negative user experience and bring revenue in without providing any value (possibly negative value) to the user. Nothing groundbreaking here, but lets not pretend this is anything but a money grab.

They do as most newspapers are not free at the newsstand. To get those local classified ads you have to pay.

They can be a negative or positive depending on the ad and when/where you see it

Some people love to see new products and ads show those.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#145

Post by squeaky-clean »

travisgriggs wrote: post #105

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are ke…

> If I sat down with a troubled couple who was having a hard time communicating, I wouldn't periodically interrupt and say "let's pause a moment for an ad. I think that's going to really open up a better and more free exchange between the both of you."

Couples counseling isn't free, maybe with ads they could be.

I mean obviously not, but only because a professional counselor can only see about 8 couples per day while a search engine can serve several billion.

Brave is saying it in a very PR / marketing speak way, but I get the underlying point. Instead of funding our service with your own money, let some big companies fund it in exchange for your attention.

The unspoken issue (well it gets spoken on HN a lot) is that your searchers no longer become your customers. So it's advantageous to improve your service for the sake of the advertisers to the detriment of the searchers, at least until a threshold that would make the majority of them quit. It only benefits "free and open exchange of information" for as long as that also benefits the advertisers.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#146

Post by logicalmonster »

satvikpendem wrote: post #74

After all the Brave controversies [0] I'm not sure why anyone uses Brave anymore. They took creators' money while ostensibly "collecting" it for them, and they inserted their own affiliate links when you visited certain sites. It's just shady behavior all around. I mean, when you have your own "Controversies" section on Wikipedia, you know there's something wrong. Especially with Manifest v3 looming which would kill…

> After all the Brave controversies

"Brave's controversies" are not really about Brave.

Brave as a company is not above criticism and should be harshly gone after for their mistakes when they do anything less than perfect with regards to privacy or anything else. I think they've done over 90% of things right, but have screwed up a small portion of the complicated stuff (new browser, new online advertising models, and search ecosystem) they're trying to pull off. And yes, they've made a few errors along the way.

That said, the "Brave controversies" are not actually about Brave's real merits as a company, but are mostly about a long-standing grudge regarding Brendan Eich's political beliefs. A certain crowd will not give Eich an inch to ever succeed and will continuously rip even the most minor and inane issue solely to destroy what he represents.

I'm really sick of people pretending that the "Brave controversies" are actually about Brave as a company and not overwhelmingly about the larger ongoing culture war that's been waged.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#147

Post by squeaky-clean »

ipaddr wrote: post #144
dismalpedigree wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ads are truly so useful, perhaps they should withhold them unless you pay $3/mo. Oh right. They are a negative user experience and bring revenue in without providing any value (possibly negative value) to the user. Nothing groundbreaking here, but lets not pretend this is anything but a money grab.

They do as most newspapers are not free at the newsstand. To get those local classified ads you have to pay. They can be a negative or positive depending on the ad and when/where you see it Some people love to see new products and ads show those.

There are some free ones but they're also 90% ads :p

Then again I used to subscribe to tech magazines back in the day, and you can think of the articles and reviews as well thought out and curated ads. (At least the good magazines).

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#148

Post by ipaddr »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #133
hunterb123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never opened a newspaper up to the classifieds? Those are ads. You may not know of a tree cutting service until you look there. You may not know where to get a car part until you look there. Having ads riddled throughout the internet is one thing, but having a directory where ads are supposed to be is another. Yes billboards are annoying, that doesn't make classifieds equal. (oh and you could just pay $3/mo or…

But there's a difference if you're searching for a tree cutting service in the yellow pages, or if you're googling a chainsaw sharpener, and you get a tree cutting service ad.

Is there? You are searching for keywords and paid information is presented usually in some order that puts paid items near the top and more visible.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#149

Post by thewebcount »

Archipelagia wrote: post #41

Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular…

It's a slippery slope though. We saw this with Google, so it's not like it's a straw man. First it's small, discrete ads to the side. Then it's the first few entries are ads, but are marked as such. Then it's the first page of entries. Then the marking disappears. (Yeah, they put it back eventually after a backlash. I wouldn't expect a company like Brave to do the same, though.)

I just go with a search engine I pay for that doesn't offer any ad-supported stuff (kagi.com). That way, I'm directly supporting the service, and they have zero incentive to start showing me stuff that other people are paying for me to see and which I definitely don't want to see.

Re: Brave launches private search ads

#150

Post by ajsnigrutin »

ipaddr wrote: post #148
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a difference if you're searching for a tree cutting service in the yellow pages, or if you're googling a chainsaw sharpener, and you get a tree cutting service ad.

Is there? You are searching for keywords and paid information is presented usually in some order that puts paid items near the top and more visible.

But i'm searching for a sharpener, not a tree cutting service.

When I open youtube and click on the chainsaw sharpening tutorial video, i wasnt to see that video, not 6 ads for something i didn't search for and don't need.

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