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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#161

Funny... my roommates and I used "just" for comedic effect in college. I was stuck writing an algorithm and asked my more-experienced roommate for help. He briefly scanned my code and said, "well, you kind of just... code it." I looked at him quizzically and just blurted, "straight up?" "Yep, just straight up code it." Then we all laughed at the absurdity. He wasn't trying to trivialize the problem, to be clear, but…

Somebody has to do the Monty Python quote.

To play the flute, you just blow in this end, and move your fingers up and down on this end.

In the 70s, people thought of programmers as typists.

Re: Just don’t

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everything, nothing works". Few people like being asked open-ended questions when they are irritated.

“CNR, not enough detail, ticket closed, reopen with more information if your problem persists”. I don't have time to dig information out of people in order to try to help them, if they can't make any effort to help me help them when I ask for more information. This is of course one of the reasons I'm not generally client facing these days!

I have the opposite problem with many technical support teams these days. I supply them with a full breakdown of what error I encountered, the reproduction code/commands/data, my configuration, what I think happened, how I tested for that, alternative explanations I came up with and tried, traces, trace markers, vendor-standard dumps, and a call to action of the next piece of information I need (usually an explanation of what is exactly happening inside a specific function call that the trace doesn't reveal). I did what I dreamed of receiving when I fielded technical calls back in the day but never did, and am trying to follow all the vendors' own support guidelines of what they want to save everyone time.

There are so many offshore teams these days that I wonder whether the volume of what I supply in my support tickets overwhelms the English as a second language support engineers' total comprehension abilities, between the combined English-to-native language parsing and internalization of the case details itself. About 9 out of 10 times now when I reach offshore engineers, there are responses with blatant signals they simply did not read through even a third of what I painstakingly put together. With English native speakers, it is closer to 1-5% depending upon the vendor.

No shade to the offshore teams, but it adds an unnecessary debugging cycle for them, I suspect they're under insane metrics to uphold incentivizing this behavior and I just politely point out where I already gave them the information they're requesting. Most of the time they simply escalate the case straight towards the development team.

Re: Just don’t

#163

Not saying it's not good to learn about how "just" might be perceived or avoided but I am surprised this article is getting so much support. I feel like in the environment I'm in "just" never implied anything negative (e.g. lack of understanding on the receiver's part, making it seem like they should have considered ... but didn't, etc.), rather: - I don't yet understand why steps x, y, z are necessary. To me it woul…

I was surprised to see it as well. I think these discussions are healthy and I personally do find them interesting sometimes, so I guess that should make me less surprised that it has traction.

I think it's partially the tone of blame towards the use of "just". While I am interested in micro-optimizations, especially in how I communicate, I suspect most people don't. I don't begrudge anyone who uses "just" in speech though.

Another article / perspective on this would be written to help others understand why they or others use "just" in speech. This would help people interested in optimizing communication see the flaws in the use of the word, while aiding in understanding/empathy for this who are on the receiving end.

Re: Just don’t

#164
post #70
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have taken it as "this portrait packing slip has what we need, now scale and rotate and put it on the left of the same size paper" - and then gone over to the warehouse and grabbed a few copies of what they did.

Yeah, just pop over to a client's warehouse (which may not even be in the same city) to chat with some guys you have never seen before - sounds like a plan! I imagine if it would have been as simple as you suggest they would have just done that ;)

I’d suggest a phone call, but yeah dealing with the actual users is far better than some middle manager without a clue how the job actually gets performed.

Re: Just don’t

#165
post #69

I stopped using the word "just" in the meaning "only" when I took math courses at university. The lecturers were so good to use that term ("trivially", "evidently", etc.) when it was anything but. The smartest students were good to follow up. Everyone else were quiet.

"The proof is left as an exercise for the reader" is often short-hand for "I don't know how to prove it myself and will defer the question to someone with greater expertise."

Re: Just don’t

#166

I'm all for cutting this out with medical advice and such (unsolicited advice, and importantly wrong advice), but this example annoys me: >You look at some graphs and error messages. It’s easy (once again, I speak from experience) to say something like “Could you just cache the hot partition keys?” or “So, just scan the logs for the high-latency signals and frequency-sort them.” >This. Will. Not. Help. It's not fair…

> It's not fair to ask people for help and then complain about their word usage when trying to help. This is a situation where solicited advice was asked for.

This is not wrong but it's not always useful. Being more kind in your language when giving help will carry your point across more clearly. Consider a junior engineer stressed out by deadlines -- sure, they should listen to you calmly and fix the problem, but it can be hard when you're not used to the right mindstate. A bit of finesse when choosing your words will go a long way.

This goes the other way too -- ignoring when people use unnecessary language when giving help is for the best, even though in a perfect world they wouldn't. Communication is about being understood, not being fair. Giving a bit from your side to speak on terms the other side is more comfortable on is a great skill to have.

Re: Just don’t

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, exactly. The only caveat I'd offer is that sometimes this is not a good question to ask ("what have you tried?") because it can be interpreted as "are you doing anything about it?" Edge case, true, but still worth being intentional about.

Asking "what have you tried?" suggests that the answer to the question will lead to the answer to the problem. But the person seeking help already knows what they have tried, and they don't have an answer. So in the absolute best case, it's a useless question, you're just trying to get them to rubber duck it. In a less-than-great case, it'll be taken as a suggestion that they need your guidance in basic critical thin…

> In my view, the very limited potential upside (successful Socratic rubber ducking)

It depends on the situation - if you're not familiar with the person asking, and you're talking with them one-on-one, it can be a chance for them to establish their dignity so you can triage their request properly.

If I'm looking after a shopping website and someone tells me they can't put things in their basket, I might usually start by asking with some pretty basic questions.

By giving them a chance to tell me they can't put things in their basket on pages X and Y but can on Z, and it only happens when using Firefox, and that they've tested with multiple accounts, these browser versions and OSes, with and without plugins/ad blockers, and they've got confirmation from several other people - probably I'm going to skip asking them to clear their cookies and I'll launch straight into reproducing it myself.

On the other hand, if I'm looking after a shopping website with clumsy warehouse staff and a customer tells me they ordered two widgets and only received one, probably I don't need any more info from the customer - and resolving the problem rather than batting it back to the customer would be good customer service.

Re: Just don’t

#168

You know what else doesn't help? That obnoxious thing where each word in a sentence gets a period after it. I'm pretty sure that doesn't help either. Just write out sentences with the period at the end so you don't sound condescending.

The period every word thing could. Not. Go. Away. Fast. Enough.

I haven't really seen UsInG aLtErNaTiNg CaPs to indicate mockery lately, so maybe there's hope.

Re: Just don’t

#169

I get a lot more mileage out of "have you tried..." than "why don't you just...". As a recent example, I wrote a system that auto-generates PDF packing slips from an order form, to send to a warehouse for picking and packing. Yesterday a client told me to "just make it landscape" while I was explaining why "just making it landscape" won't solve the problem of giving the warehouse whitespace to pencil stuff in, becaus…

I like the phrasing "I'm curious if ..." or "I wonder if ..." which hopefully communicates that is is just ;) my humble guess upon first impression of seeing the problem.

Re: Just don’t

#170
Active listening is a learnable and useful skill.

Most of the time we are predicting what people will say, and using the spare time to work out what we are going to say in return. This means that we often miss nuance or vital details.

This means that we can squander time or emotional capital by projecting our mental model of the person onto them. (this is a long winded way to say biases, but that triggers people, so I tend to avoid using that.)

So how do you active listen?

number 1) Slow everything down.

You do not need to reply instantly. Use non verbal queues to indicate that you are thinking and paying attention (nodding, saying hmm, etc, etc)

number 2) pay attention to non verbal cues.

Are they getting more fidgety? are they relaxed? are they looking more sad, can they keep eye contact? All of these cues give insight to the person's feelings. You should be able to spot if you are making sense, as they will change their pose/behaviour.

number 3) repeat what you think they are saying back to them to get agreement

"If I understand correctly you feel that [..] is that correct?"

You will need to pay attention to your body language and tone. Are you butting in? are you feeling angry? pity? annoyance? why are you feeling those emotions? is it better to come back later?

There are many more parts to active listening, but most of it can be learnt. Basically its practical empathy (as in understanding what people think, and why they might think that, rather than aiming to feel the same emotion as someone else.)

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