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Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

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Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#161

Post by ohCh6zos »

PM_me_your_math wrote: post #135
fullshark wrote: post #16

Subreddits solve I think the big problem of twitter, namely political flamebait leaking everywhere. Compartmentalize and quarantine that stuff and maybe you can get a healthy message board going, but I think people will never be as open and naive as they were in the early days of twitter / FB again.

In the early days, Reddit was touted as a free speech platform (sound familiar?) yet it was always designed to be an echo chamber, and changes to the product up to this point have only ever served that end. The mechanics of upvote/downvote, in collaboration with activist admins & moderators, ensures that comments which oppose the current group think are hidden, while comments that re-enforce the group-think (even if…

To add to that Reddit has a huge problem with brigading subreddits who go out and make sure others can’t talk in peace.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#162

Post by pjc50 »

noxer wrote: post #155
pjc50 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disagreeing but supporting that someone should be able voice their opinion anyway It's not just "disagreement" but the death threats, slurs, allegations of "grooming", racism, libel, and simple fraud (especially involving cryptocurrency). Heck, Musk himself posted (and deleted shortly afterwards) libel about Pete Pelosi.

If it isn't a crime or spam then it is in fact disagreement. There is no inherent different from calling someone a "racist" or "nazi" to calling someone a "groomer". On Twitter these "slurs" are used by different sides (bubbles) but other than that there is no difference. It might be a baseless allegation or there could be more to it but either way it is clearly an opinion and disagreeing is fine no need to prevent a…

> What is so hard about the concept of allowing people to be wrong about things?

People act on that basis? If all this stuff was totally disconnected from the real world, then sure yeah whatever, but it isn't. The point is that Pete Pelosi was attacked by a terrorist who'd be radicalized by wrong information.

The "groomer" stuff worries me because I know enough queer people who are now more likely to face real, physical violence as a result.

But it's not just twitter. Some of this stuff is in "mainstream" media and politics now.

I'm only OK with you being wrong about things if you're willing to sit in an inaction bubble and do nothing which can affect me, including radicalizing others to your cause who will do things.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#163

Post by ComplexSystems »

There is no "human behavior" problem. There is a coordinated effort to ruin the platform by various groups, from Super PACs to foreign governments and everything in between, by turning it into an information warfare battlefield. An enormous amount of Twitter is made up of people simply not posting their honest opinion at all.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#164

Post by insane_dreamer »

I wish Elon would have the guts to break away from the ad-based model, which is the root of many of social media's problems. Charge users $2/month. This will: - reduce bots / spam accounts (even if someone is willing to pay it'll be difficult to set up a credit card for each account) - reduce all the effort that goes into trying to maximize time spent on the platform (which drives ad revenue) - the focus becomes more on content rather than clicks - focus the platform on what users want rather than what advertisers want

It won't solve the polarization issues, but it will help.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#166

Post by mikkergp »

paulusthe wrote: post #83
mFixman wrote: post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

That's definitely the problem, but the answer isn't to change Twitter's algorithms. We must ask why Twitter's algorithms ended up where they did, and the answer is that it's more profitable to do what Twitter does than the alternative. It's not like Twitter's creators maliciously set out to become the flaming hellscape it is now. It responded to market forces and user behavior. Neither of those factors have changed,…

In direct conflict to your assertion is that the other _more successful_ social networks don't do this, they put people in their bubbles. Tik Tok is fun to use because it shows me content I want, not the flamewar topics. Jack Dorsey specifically had this vision for Twitter and it has served to make it less monetizeable and mediocrely successful (compared to the other SN's)

My biggest issue with Twitter is not even really that the content is inflammatory or controversial, it's that seeing "a person I don't know calling another person I don't know a Nazi" is irrelevant to my life.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#167

Post by pjc50 »

abeppu wrote: post #148
bckr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With utmost curiosity, how can making people happy get money for investors and SWE salaries?

You get content which makes people happy and optimistic about something which they now want to buy OR you gather information on what actually makes people happy (or at least engaged in something other than arguing), and sell that information. Less culture wars, more aspirational/fitness/self-care/nature-travel/interior design/organic subscription box/hygge content.

Instagram already exists for the latter.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#168

Post by endorphine »

Related discussion on Lex Fridman's podcast, where social psychologist Jonathan Haidt argues about the negative effects of social media. For example, he argues kids shouldn't be allowed on Twitter and Facebook until 16 or 18.

https://youtu.be/f0un-l1L8Zw

Pretty interesting discussion.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#169

Post by noxer »

GMoromisato wrote: post #151
edent wrote: post #13

I disagree. Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but they ignore one big factor. Twitter chooses what content to promote to people. I could use Twitter quite happily not knowing about the latest "scandal" in, say, the knitting world. But Twitter actively promotes that content to me - either with the "trending" sidebar or by showing me content that it thinks will increase my engagement. That is a technical problem. H…

I agree with you, but I'd say this is not a "technical" problem because it's not the engineers who screwed up--they correctly implemented the algorithms they were asked to create. The problem is with the business model . If you only make money off ads, then you need these dark pattern algorithms to survive as a company. Taking Twitter private gives the company space to come up with a better business model. But there…

This would make sense if twitter actually made profit or at least grew its "capital" (the users). But what they actually did is increase the work force and lose active users.

This is a strong evidence to me that the algorithms aren't actually driven by raw capitalistic incentives but are at least partially a tool to manipulate public discourse.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#170

Post by tmaly »

mFixman wrote: post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

have you looked at the home page for YouTube recently? Tons of stuff trying to drive a emotional response.
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