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Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

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Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#81
post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

> 3. Somebody I don't follow accusing another person I don't follow of being a nazi. I cannot believe how much of Twitter is exactly this.

Left-wing twitter is calling everyone nazis and right-wing twitter is calling everyone pedophiles.

Enjoy the nuanced discussion.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#82
post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

It is also related to the social engineering that has occurred over the last few decades. If the people running the show can get the plebes to focus on hating each other, they get to keep running the show.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#83
post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

That's definitely the problem, but the answer isn't to change Twitter's algorithms. We must ask why Twitter's algorithms ended up where they did, and the answer is that it's more profitable to do what Twitter does than the alternative.

It's not like Twitter's creators maliciously set out to become the flaming hellscape it is now. It responded to market forces and user behavior. Neither of those factors have changed, so why would we expect any for-profit public square to do it any differently?

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#84

I just set up a Twitter account for the first time, to see what the Musk era is like. One immediate issue I notice is that the recommendation algorithm immediately starts siloing you into a roomfull of mirrors. Based on who you follow, it recommends similar people to follow (based apparently on who your followees follow plus maybe other data), so you quickly end up in an echo chamber. That's not the whole story, Twit…

What you describe is actually the "pre-Musk" Twitter - I created a new account late last year and it was as you describe.

It has been an excellent source of information for me, but I am sure to follow good accounts (authors, podcasters, and their guests if they are interesting and don't RT junk), and sticking with timeline view.

Unfortunately that's not how the majority use Twitter, so in the end your take is the correct one for the 99%...

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#85
post #13

I disagree. Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but they ignore one big factor. Twitter chooses what content to promote to people. I could use Twitter quite happily not knowing about the latest "scandal" in, say, the knitting world. But Twitter actively promotes that content to me - either with the "trending" sidebar or by showing me content that it thinks will increase my engagement. That is a technical problem. H…

> How do you surface engaging content without also surfacing harmful / polarising / abusive content?

But the most engaging content is also the most harmful / polarizing / abusive!

"The algorithm" is mostly humans clicking buttons.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#86
post #13

I disagree. Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but they ignore one big factor. Twitter chooses what content to promote to people. I could use Twitter quite happily not knowing about the latest "scandal" in, say, the knitting world. But Twitter actively promotes that content to me - either with the "trending" sidebar or by showing me content that it thinks will increase my engagement. That is a technical problem. H…

> How do you surface engaging content without also surfacing harmful / polarising / abusive content?

People's objections to twitter are rarely if ever that they have objectionable material forced upon them. The objections are that objectionable material is "surfaced" to anyone, especially the people who desire that material the most.

And the definition of that objectionable material tends to correspond to the beliefs common among people who voted for Trump, who won one election and barely lost the next i.e. the objectionable material that should be suppressed is usually the opinion of near-majorities, and virtually always very large minorities of the population. Speaking as a black person - if all black people believed the exact same thing about an issue (but nobody else did), it would mean that 12% of the US population believed it. There are no ideas currently being censored that aren't honestly believed by more than 12% of the population, so a media that can't represent them is worthless for us.

It's not a technical problem to write a politically neutral political censorship algorithm, it's a logical problem. It's like trying to build a coffee machine that doesn't use coffee. It's also a fictional problem that only external defenders of political censorship think exists: the insiders at our major social media outlets are happy to solve the problem of the administration being upset with what is said on their platforms by meeting with them weekly, reporting on what's been accomplished since last week, and getting a new list of orders for next week. There's your "neutral" algorithm.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#87
post #29

No amount of algorithms can improve human behavior on any platform. You can definitely make human behavior worse using an algorithm just by pushing content that provokes negative reactions in as many people as possible. I don't see why the opposite wouldn't be true. If the algorithm pushed uncontroversial content into people's timelines and didn't reward hateful crap they might get happier. Maybe Elon will give that…

With utmost curiosity, how can making people happy get money for investors and SWE salaries?

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#88

Agreed. The problem with Twitter is in its design . It's in what it allows you to do, and what it doesn't. I'll repeat what I raised in the other post: 1. People are high-variance, and yet we're only allowed to follow individual accounts. That's a problem, especially because network effects mean that one person's voice gets amplified exponentially with the number of followers they have. Consider the six degrees of se…

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Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#89
post #80

Until not that long ago I was a pretty happy Twitter user. I curated my follows (keeping them between 150 and 200), only followed people posting interesting , creative , or scientific things. When anyone started tweeting or retweeting low quality material, I simply unfollowed. Unfortunately, the devs at Twitter hate the way I use it. Nowadays ever 5th post or so on my timeline is from someone I do not follow, either…

Looking at my feed it's all accounts I follow (and people they retweet). No politics except for the few politics accounts I've chosen to follow. No toxicity except when I look for it. As far as I can tell people are either exaggerating their experience or bad at curating since I doubt I'm getting a special version of their product.

Do you use an ad blocker or a non-default Twitter client? Those may be removing the items that everyone else sees.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#90

I just set up a Twitter account for the first time, to see what the Musk era is like. One immediate issue I notice is that the recommendation algorithm immediately starts siloing you into a roomfull of mirrors. Based on who you follow, it recommends similar people to follow (based apparently on who your followees follow plus maybe other data), so you quickly end up in an echo chamber. That's not the whole story, Twit…

>to see what the Musk era is like.

You think they have had time to change anything yet?? jesus

As someone who has worked for companies being bought, changes takes TIME.

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