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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#161

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

throwoutway wrote: post #96
xoa wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case: The ACLU is not wrong, if you actually read their actual words. Your case doesn't say what you think it does. From your own article: > Bikkannavar insisted that he wasn’t allowed to do that because the phone belonged to NASA’s JPL and he’s required to protect access. Agents insisted and he finall…

Let me know how successful you are crossing the border and getting home when you tell CBP to “pound sand”. They’ll just deny you entry and you’re left with very little recourse. Effectively they are the judge and jury and you’re stuck in the waiting area if you’re lucky, a holding cell if you’re not If you think you’re immune just because you’re a US citizen, you’re not.

Constitution is suspended within 100 miles of the border.

Worst day of Google Mapping ever.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#162

Post by toss1 »

Bakary wrote: post #56
pdimitar wrote: post #33

Honestly, as a non-American this scares me. I am absolutely not at all important and a fairly mediocre programmer as well, I don't store compromising data about anyone, never stole code or company data in my life (and never will), etc., you get it. A normal law-abiding citizen. I still don't want to get my phone taken on an US airport and returned an hour later with God knows how many viruses that even Apple wouldn't…

The elephant in the room in this case is that at a most basic level a State is an entity that maintains a (near) monopoly of violence in a given area. Being a normal law-abiding citizen just means that you are currently functioning in an area where the State's goals somewhat coincide with you living with some degree of freedom and comfort. Or at least they have no current incentive to mess with your life. But the who…

True

OTOH, without the state, you have anarchy, which is inevitably and quickly filled by warlords or criminal gangs controlling whatever geographic and/or economic territory they can. The security situation in relation tho them is even less good, and you don't get nearly as much good infrastructure.

So, it's important to keep in mind the broader context and what really is a lesser of evils.

Unless, of course, you can point me to the magical stable stateless advanced society where I can go live... (srsly, it'd be great)

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#163

Post by refurb »

mlindner wrote: post #83
jliptzin wrote: post #45

This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.

They can't actually do that. If you just refuse to give them the password they'll give it back to you.

As a Canadian? They have to let you enter, but I believe they’ll seize it?

As anyone else? “Your request to enter Canada has been denied”

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#164

Post by shiftpgdn »

algoatecorn wrote: post #154

As a thought experiment, what would happen if you wrote your own malicious payload to a burner device and handed that over? What if you warned the border agents that your device would deliver malicious code and they plugged it in anyway?

I believe there was a defcon talk about this but for the life of me I can't find it. My advice is to epoxy your lightning port closed (or snip the data connection inside the phone) and use wireless charging exclusively.

edit: It was the Signal founder. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/21/signal-hacks-cell...

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#165

Post by boring_twenties »

pearjuice wrote: post #57
jliptzin wrote: post #45

This happened to me in 2016 crossing into Canada. Borders agents took my phone for no reason, demand I give them the password to unlock it (otherwise they would seize the phone), took it in the back for 45 min before returning it and letting me enter. I think it’s obvious they took all my data. So now when I travel I just bring my “travel” phone with no sensitive data on it.

45 minutes of unsupervised access to your phone? Even if it's a "travel" phone I wouldn't connect it to any other device after that.

They took my laptop in the back for just 30 minutes or so, after which I refused to accept it back from them or even touch it, which took another 2 hours or so. Eventually they agreed to dispose of it themselves.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#166

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

josefresco wrote: post #54
flenserboy wrote: post #30

Treat every phone as a burner.

Pretty difficult with 2FA

Why?

You'd never register a token with an actually secure 2FA schema (account inaccessible if token inaccessible) with just one device.

Back up your 2FA/MFA.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#167

Post by doodlebugging »

The easiest solution to this persistent storage of private citizen's personal data siphoned from their phones or other devices is to carry a burner phone on international trips and weaponize the data that you store on it before you travel. Infect some photos and PDFs with one of those silent exploits that, once it gets into their data center, maps all the drives and wipes them or one that wipes the devices that they are using to siphon all the data at the border crossing. Even sticking them with something like a shitcoin miner would be a win.

Or, target the data storage center directly. I guarantee that someone in their custody chain is dumb enough to click a fake email link or visit that hijacked site to download code that wipes their data center drives. You only need to be lucky once to put them back at square one.

Or better yet, someone could create a repository of shitty memes that can be downloaded to your burner phone before you travel. Just grab a bunch of "Yo' Mama" memes and let the agency hacks waste all their time reviewing the same well-worn collection over and over. The more boring the better.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#168

Post by ch4s3 »

lisper wrote: post #158
ch4s3 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this.

He did cite an example: George Floyd. You really ought to read the comment you are replying to more carefully. (And you have to be pretty profoundly ignorant of current events not to already be aware of this.)

I did read it. Floyd wasn’t killed while refusing an unlawful search, which is specifically what I’m asking about.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#169

Post by tristor »

toss1 wrote: post #152
throwawayacc2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We wouldn’t want those pesky commies, ahh sorry, that was the 50s and 60s, those darn uppity negroes, ahh sorry again, my bad, that was civil rights era, those blasted … err, commies again? They made a comeback in the 80s it seems. Ahh there it is. We don’t want those crazy islamist terrorists harming our people. We need to protect your freedom … by curtailing it, of course. Sorry, sorry, I’ve just been informed, the…

If you cannot see the difference between civil rights movements attempting to change governing to be more even-handed vs expansionist authoritarian governments or movements attempting to destroy democratic governments altogether, you need serious help (and should at least stop broadcasting your ignorance).

It's less about the difference between these groups and more about the response to these groups. It is your politics showing in your response rather than the person you are replying to... do you think they don't believe that Islamic terrorists exist (which they mentioned)? At no point in the history of the government national security apparatus has the target and its veracity made any difference in the trend line of the government doing more surveillance and curtailing more freedoms. Don't believe me? Do some research on COINTELPRO.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#170

Post by algoatecorn »

beebeepka wrote: post #160
algoatecorn wrote: post #154

As a thought experiment, what would happen if you wrote your own malicious payload to a burner device and handed that over? What if you warned the border agents that your device would deliver malicious code and they plugged it in anyway?

What do you think would happen to a regular person performing such an act? Would it be like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or a James Bond movie?

Huh? I'm asking about the realistic outcome, whether that be denial of border crossing, criminal charges, or they choose to not examine the device and let you through.
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