Seems like real solution are phones that by default provided end-to-end-encryption for cloud backups, no local data “travel modes”, secure wipes, multiple logins, etc. — since trying to get countries to uniformly play by same rules seem highly unlikely.
US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> national security implications There’s nothing more American than spying on your own people and blaming it on terrorists.
A government that doesn't keep good enough control if it's people will soon be overthrown. When you give the people more freedom to protest, organise, mass communicate easily etc, you also have to add equal amounts of monitoring and restrictions to make sure that next movement to overthrow the government can't pick up speed without you catching it.
We wouldn’t want those pesky commies, ahh sorry, that was the 50s and 60s, those darn uppity negroes, ahh sorry again, my bad, that was civil rights era, those blasted … err, commies again? They made a comeback in the 80s it seems. Ahh there it is. We don’t want those crazy islamist terrorists harming our people. We need to protect your freedom … by curtailing it, of course.
Sorry, sorry, I’ve just been informed, the boogieman is no longer islamic terrorists. Now, it’s called radical white supremacist qanon Jan 6 anti vax conspiracy incel nationalist. My bad. I apologise.
But the curtailing of freedom will continue and the surveillance will increase. In order to safeguard our freedom and privacy, of course.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#33Honestly, as a non-American this scares me. I am absolutely not at all important and a fairly mediocre programmer as well, I don't store compromising data about anyone, never stole code or company data in my life (and never will), etc., you get it. A normal law-abiding citizen.
I still don't want to get my phone taken on an US airport and returned an hour later with God knows how many viruses that even Apple wouldn't be able to detect on my iPhone.
It's not about having something to hide. It's about not liking it when people poke their noses in your business without you being a criminal. And no I don't think installing backdoors on each device "to catch the criminals more easily" is a solution at all.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, it's almost like "human rights" are a cultural/political/ideological construct and not a legalistic one, and people might have varying differing opinions of what those rights are. And that there might be room in a democratic society for discussion of this, what is most just and sensible, and how we might accommodate a changing world situation. But no... the legal categories of border rights are immutable and con…
> But no... the legal categories of border rights are immutable and constant. Except of course, they're not, since the whole concept of restricting movement into the US didn't really being until about 1917 - before that you pretty much just showed up. (I know you know this, I'm just re-enforcing your point.)
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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#35"That's when they can plug in the traveler's phone, tablet or PC to a device that copies their information, ...". would really like to know which "devices" they are talking about. fkn hard to do a full android backup these days.. this world. im tellin ya. on another note: lets talk about how one would go about keeping ones privacy intact aka having a party in the capitol. 1. will they be able to get into my cryptroot…
I'm guessing they're talking about Cellebrite gear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellebrite_UFED
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#36"That's when they can plug in the traveler's phone, tablet or PC to a device that copies their information, ...". would really like to know which "devices" they are talking about. fkn hard to do a full android backup these days.. this world. im tellin ya. on another note: lets talk about how one would go about keeping ones privacy intact aka having a party in the capitol. 1. will they be able to get into my cryptroot…
Take a look at https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#37Seems like real solution are phones that by default provided end-to-end-encryption for cloud backups, no local data “travel modes”, secure wipes, multiple logins, etc. — since trying to get countries to uniformly play by same rules seem highly unlikely.
Or just a burner with plausible activity stored on it to give the impression that it's your main phone.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#38The way US treats the migrants is human rights violation at the border. Now add this to the pile of atrocities committed by the border patrol and ICE. It's high time we should consider open border.
Searching your phone is a humans rights violation? I mean, I get the hyperbole, but I'd say more like a privacy issue.
But hey, just add the US to the long list of countries like Canada, UK, Australia, etc, etc, etc.
Maybe we can come up with a positive list of countries that won't search your phone at the border?
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#39Terrifying for only 2 reasons:
1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens.
2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former government official once joked many years ago - concerning Chinese hacking - "Well, its probably more secure in the CCP's data center, so I wouldn't worry."
This is the problem when a non-technical generation makes the rules and regs. Luddites ought not be permitted to ascend the GS ranks.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#40I'm not sure I missed something, the title says "Americans" but I couldn't find an elaboration on exactly _who_ is subject to these searches. The ACLU [0] seems to contend that, at least, US citizens are not subject to these measures. [0]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...
The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case: https://gizmodo.com/border-agent-demands-nasa-scientist-unlo...
>The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case:
The ACLU is not wrong, if you actually read their actual words. Your case doesn't say what you think it does. From your own article:
>Bikkannavar insisted that he wasn’t allowed to do that because the phone belonged to NASA’s JPL and he’s required to protect access. Agents insisted and he finally relented.
As far as the law is concerned, he voluntarily let them look at it. It doesn't matter if they "insisted", he could have told them to pound sand. They could have kept the phone, but in its locked state it presumably wouldn't be that useful, and particularly since it wasn't merely a personal device JPL's legal department then could have easily gone right after them for it and won. Just because we have the legal right to something doesn't mean there is some magic barrier preventing LEOs from attempting to violating them, or implying the right doesn't exist. They have to be defended by people exercising them and potentially going to court. The very next paragraph states:
>Hassan Shibly, chief executive director of CAIR Florida, tells The Verge that most people who are shown the form giving CBP authority to search their device believe that they have an obligation to help the agents. “They’re not obligated to unlock the phone,” she says.
Right, same as a police officer who asks if they can "look around" or "ask a few questions". They may certainly ask that. You may choose to cooperate. But in general you'd be a fool to do so, and you also may say "no". If they arrest you they were almost certainly going to do so anyway but now they have less to go on and with more avenues to challenge it, and if they arrest you over exercising your rights you have a strong cause of action right there. CBP agents may well ask people this sort of thing all the time, but that doesn't mean citizens must comply.