I hate what video games have become • Hacker News Board

Re: I hate what video games have become

#161

Post by soultrees » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:25 AM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #155

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

Good thing they have whales like me who will spend 100x of what you would have paid. They don't need you when they can milk me.

Genuine question out of curiosity - what do you get out spending that much on a game? I’ve heard some whales spending 10-20k a week and that’s probably not even the highest. Do you get genuine enjoyment out of it or do you ever feel fleeced at all?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#162

Post by legalcorrection » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:26 AM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #155

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

Good thing they have whales like me who will spend 100x of what you would have paid. They don't need you when they can milk me.

This is like bragging about being in the demographic that keeps celebrity gossip tabloids afloat. Do you also lose a lot of money on MLM schemes? Are Vegas casinos comping week-long stays for you?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#163

Post by sofixa » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:29 AM UTC

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

I disagree. There are ways to do it in which it's obvious where the business model is, and it isn't too forceful or gambling.

The World of Tanks/Battleships/Warplanes series, are free to play, with progression through experience ( you unlock higher level machines based on xp points you accumulate through playing and success at it), or through paying to go up the ladder faster or unlock special machines. You can play the free version just fine ( a paying user against you doesn't have a serious advantage), and the developers make enough money from the paying users who enjoy the exclusive machines or earning xp faster. Why shouldn't i enjoy a free game i know someone pays for ( and that someone needs me there too, if there aren't adversaries you can't play)?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#164

Post by madrox » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:30 AM UTC

dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

I think a lot of people naively think of moves like this as pure money grabs and don’t appreciate that a lot of these moves are out of survival…especially for games like Rocket League that require a sufficient player base to even be a viable live service game.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#165

Post by cheerioty » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:30 AM UTC

I feel like Rocket League is like the smallest offender. What really shocked me when I discovered that like 99% of FIFA streams were about loot pack openings these days, not actually anyone playing/enjoying the game. And when they dare to do so anyway, their live viewer count drops right away. Also in this case it’s pure gambling, as you don’t know what you’ll get with any buy.

Edit: People tried to fight this in court, with basically zero results: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2022-03-09-eas-10m-dutch-...

Re: I hate what video games have become

#166

Post by walrus01 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:32 AM UTC

... so don't play those games?

There's still tons of world class story driven games that don't have loot boxes or similar mechanics. I think I paid $19 for a used copy of horizon zero dawn and enjoyed it immensely.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#167

Post by freedom2099 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:34 AM UTC

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

I hear you! Same goes for me… if a game is free to play for me it’s a NO GO!

Re: I hate what video games have become

#168

Post by yourdeadneopet » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:34 AM UTC

A few years ago, Nintendo made a wonderful game called Super Mario Run. It was simple - Mario automatically runs and you tap to jump - but surprisingly deep. The timing of the jumps and the height of jump was paramount, and there was a ton of replayability in trying to get out-of-reach coins and finding shortcuts. It also captured the aesthetic of the Mario World games with modern graphics. I was VERY skeptical of a mobile Mario game, but was won over by the quality of game design and the clear level of polish.

Nintendo charged $9.99 for this game. The response was absolute evisceration in the ratings. Mobile game players EXPECTED a F2P experience that would waste their time with energy charge ups, loot boxes, etc. and were upset when Nintendo didn't do that. In response, Nintendo switched to this type of experience for their next release, Fire Emblem, which performed much better.

The Wikipedia article for Super Mario Run explains in detail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Run#Commercial

A select quote - '[Nintendo President] Kimishima said that "we honestly prefer the Super Mario Run model", though in a June 2017 investor question-and-answer session, he said "in the future we will consider not only a single set price, but other methods that incorporate a wider variety of elements that allow as many consumers as possible to play"'

Re: I hate what video games have become

#169

Post by Kiro » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:34 AM UTC

soultrees wrote: post #161

Kiro wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing they have whales like me who will spend 100x of what you would have paid. They don't need you when they can milk me.

Genuine question out of curiosity - what do you get out spending that much on a game? I’ve heard some whales spending 10-20k a week and that’s probably not even the highest. Do you get genuine enjoyment out of it or do you ever feel fleeced at all?

It depends on what kind of loot box. For cosmetics it's pretty random. When the game itself feels stale I want a new outfit to make it feel fresh.

For P2W it's a treat after I've been grinding freemium for a while. It's like opening a beer on Friday after work. I don't spend 10-20k a week but I do occasionally spend that amount on one game during its whole lifetime. However, that also means I've gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment out of it.

But yes, while I'm only a 1000x (1000x compared to someone who just pays $20 upfront) there are certainly people who are 1000000x and much bigger whales than me. I can't speak for them.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#170

Post by meheleventyone » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:35 AM UTC

danybittel wrote: post #116

bccdee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's a strong power law going on with microtransactions. Most players don't spend any money at all on them; some spend a couple bucks on an item or two. The model becomes profitable because of the top 1% of spenders — "whales," in industry parlance — some of whom have deeply unhealthy relationships to the gambling mechanics and social pressures underlying microtransaction economies. So it's not exactly tr…

It is almost like the business models are adjusting to the reality of the world. With massive inequality, especially in a global market. And an "entitlement" that digital products should be free or dirt cheap. If you think about it it's sort of a wealth redestribution. One extreme example was that Movie ticket business, that basically paid movie tickets with investor money.

This presumes the whales can afford to spend the way they do. Which isn’t true for gambling addicts either. And that the profits end up in the hands of workers rather than in the pockets of investors.