Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#161

Post by blitzar » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #86

chovybizzass wrote: post #13

I should have started the IBMtoo movement. That place was rancid with harassment. My boss told my director not to come to work with a cane and to stay home until her (degenerative) illness was healed.

If that meant she'd still get paid, it sounds like a kindness.

And here was I thinking my boss was being kind and caring to me when he told me to go and spend time with my wife in hospital. He even phoned me later in the day to see how we were doing.

Turns out he was being a piece of shit and if this guy was on the jury I could have cleaned him and the company out.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#162

Post by Jensson » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

angry_octet wrote: post #38

xibalba wrote: post #18

It’s crazy how often these activists footgun. Deleting google drive off a work phone during an investigation?

You know how apps work right? Nothing has actually been deleted.

> You know how apps work right? Nothing has actually been deleted.

Nothing was deleted, but Apple doesn't have access to her private Google account so they can't see what she has there. I doubt Google will cooperate with Apple over this, so from Apple's perspective she could have deleted evidence.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#163

Post by BrandoElFollito » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #107

krrrh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the work rules that make a lot of American unions distasteful to workers. A lot of people just don’t want to work in a place where people routinely say stuff like, “that’s not my job, union rules.” The Wizard of Speed and Time is a great film about how difficult it is to be an independent creator in Hollywood due to the costs of getting anything started. The unions make it very hard to bootstrap anything without…

There are two sides to that. I was representing a German union institution inside our org for one simple reason. The employer had gone out of his way to ignore what peoples responsibilities were and showered them with work that wasn't there's and then tried to punish them for pushing back. Usually the reason people respond with this is not my responsibility is because they have been burned by doing things that wasn't…

Unions in Germany are also a pain in the bottom when they are populated with incompetent people who want to show how important they are.

Adding any security technology is a nightmare because they have an obsession about being spied on.

Take a standard EDR: the security team just wants the company to be safe from hackers. The unions think that all they wish is to spot on them. What will happen is that the company will crash after repeated hacks and they know they will be the last to be fired because they are there to protect people...

Of course this is just une side, unions are fantastic when they actually do their job and this is thanks to them we have the Labour Law we have. It is just that the people today are not the same as the ones who actually cared.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#164

Post by cornel_io » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

discordance wrote: post #106

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could go back in time and tell a younger version of myself the steps needed to work at a FAANG. I unfortunately never had the right guidance to get there and hopefully my kids one day will. I can’t complain as things worked out —- but still. I see these employee issues pop up from time to time and I guess I just don’t understand it. I’m not trying to be cruel to the people speaking out. Just I truly don’t un…

> Ungodly money. Ungodly benefits. Working interesting problems everyday. Changing the world. Impacting millions of lives. The best of some of the best teams. The pay is good, but the rest of it is not as good as you make it out to be. There are exceptions, but for the most part projects, teams and impact are usually pretty low.

My experience is that the least interesting work of my entire career happened during my times at FAANG corps. They have too many overqualified people and too little difficult work to do, so more than anything you just end up playing code games, and "showing impact" by convincing people to adopt new restrictive policies and whatnot.

If you want real tough, new, interesting work, join a startup or a non-tech company where you can have true impact. Alas the pay will be shit in comparison, that's the tradeoff.

Better, start your own startup. These days anyone who can build a weekend demo and talk coherently for 45 minutes to an investor can raise a few million. Not even throwing shade or joking, it's a literal free money fiesta right now, at least until interest rates go nonzero (which will be soon).

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#165

Post by rjzzleep » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 11:00 AM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #163

rjzzleep wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to that. I was representing a German union institution inside our org for one simple reason. The employer had gone out of his way to ignore what peoples responsibilities were and showered them with work that wasn't there's and then tried to punish them for pushing back. Usually the reason people respond with this is not my responsibility is because they have been burned by doing things that wasn't…

Unions in Germany are also a pain in the bottom when they are populated with incompetent people who want to show how important they are. Adding any security technology is a nightmare because they have an obsession about being spied on. Take a standard EDR: the security team just wants the company to be safe from hackers. The unions think that all they wish is to spot on them. What will happen is that the company will…

Fully agree, but I recently had the thought that DLP actually to some extent is to shut down law enforcement and whistleblowing into companies shady behaviour.

Take for example machine learning algorithms, a lot of the actual model definition you could just copy yourself even when there is DLP. What you can't take with you is the source data and the labeled data.

DLP allows you to prevent people from leaking sketchy and incompetent leadership from investors, SEC and law enforcement. I get the logic behind it, but most of the actual critical stuff you can just take with you in some fashion or another. The situation is obviously a bit different when you're talking hardware manufacturing, CAD models etc.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#166

Post by sofixa » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

N_A_T_E wrote: post #5

Obvious retaliation on apple’s part. Unfortunately that’s employment at will. Unions might be an answer but that’s a whole set of trade offs.

You don't need full blown unions to have some pretty basic employee protections and rights. They'd help fight for, and protect abuses of said rights, but aren't necessary.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#167

Post by gatlin » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 11:29 AM UTC

da_big_ghey wrote: post #61

devwastaken wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are okay with that because they're in a position to not have to care. Perhaps apple is correct in that this was because of deleting things they were not supposed to - but individuals advocating for a culture of "apple can do whatever because it's a company" is nodding along to union busting talking points. Tech sector has been very fortunate in the past to not have to unionize, but now as the workforce grows e…

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

Because you won't always have it so lucky and also because other people deserve nice pay and working conditions too.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#168

Post by WORMS_EAT_WORMS » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 12:33 PM UTC

exBarrelSpoiler wrote: post #127

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are expectations Sounds miserable! In all seriousness, it’s awesome and better than most.

Apple has a toxic side covered up by silence that is unique among most tech companies. And you want to talk about ungodly money and ungodly benefits, yet there are suicides at Facebook and Amazon. Not to mention in investment banking. All of these things come at a cost.

Okay. So what is your point?

That there are hard jobs everywhere and hard jobs are… hard?

I would also bet stats show suicide rates are higher in other industries.

These are some of the most balanced and progressive organizations between pay and lifestyle.

If your golden ticket is so toxic go get a job that is not at 1/3 the pay. You’ll still be richer than most and I would bet many still find a way to be miserable.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#169

Post by fortran77 » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #33

prepend wrote: post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

People are okay with that because they're in a position to not have to care. Perhaps apple is correct in that this was because of deleting things they were not supposed to - but individuals advocating for a culture of "apple can do whatever because it's a company" is nodding along to union busting talking points. Tech sector has been very fortunate in the past to not have to unionize, but now as the workforce grows e…

I’m all for workers organizing. But these “protesters” were insincere and disingenuous.

The very same Apple employees who were demanding that Apple fight Texas’ new abortion laws were also demanding that Apple support Palestine — where abortion is 100% illegal.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#170

Post by _hilro » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 12:37 PM UTC

objclxt wrote: post #73

da_big_ghey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

> if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more Who says that’s what will happen? Tom Cruise is a member of SAG, do you think he gets paid SAG union rates? Union busters in tech have done a fantastic job of convincing engineers that all unions are blue-collar. Which is funny, because you only have to look to Hollywood to see unions like SAG, the DGA, and the WGA which exist to pro…

> look to Hollywood to see unions like SAG, the DGA, and the WGA which exist to protect all workers from exploitation

Funny how those Hollywood unions knowingly let their "members" be sexually exploited by powerful industry figures and didn't say a peep.

Funny how those same unions let their "members" be exploited by abusive industry figures and shit working conditions for the entirety of their existence.