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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#161

Post by Wowfunhappy »

slg wrote: post #155
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you are saying you have nothing to fear because you aren't hiding anything? No, I'm saying that if you're hiding something, maybe don't give it to someone else.

"I'm not giving my photos to anyone. I am just taking photos on my phone and Apple is automatically backing them up to iCloud. I have no idea how that feature was turned on or how to turn it off." ~ most normal people. People here too often only think of these issues from the perspective of the type of person who browses HN. Apple is thinking of this from the perspective of an average iPhone users.

Or, perhaps many regular users do understand the separation, and that's why this issue is getting so much attention.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#162

Post by JumpCrisscross »

> Apple was surprised its stance then was not more popular, and the global tide since then has been toward more monitoring of private communication

Huh. That’s a big problem. If the American public doesn’t support privacy, we won’t have it.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#163

Post by tpush »

petermcneeley wrote: post #52
nottorp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how you should look at it. They have no business scanning the phones for anything, period. I'll refer you to the poem beginning with "First they came for the Jews...".

The poem begins with "First they came for the socialists.." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ ...

'Communists' instead of 'socialists' actually; the US version is inaccurate due to anti-communist propaganda.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#164

Post by DarkmSparks »

azinman2 wrote: post #152
DarkmSparks wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Messaging someone will also reveal yourself as the sender Sending a link to 4chan /b would probably be enough. Or a hidden iFrame in a forum post. Its very very easy to get images onto someones device without their consent, getting them to upload them to a 3rd party is completely different.

So again, how is this different from Google Photos, Facebook messenger, etc etc? If this really was such an issue we would have hit it long ago. CSAM scanning is going occurring for photos that would be uploaded to iCloud.

because its scanning the content of the device, not what you did on the device.

An iFrame full of CP downloaded from 4chan that fills the browser cache with CP just by visiting a harmless site would not go anywhere near Google Photos, Facebook messenger, etc etc

It would trigger a scanner checking the browser cache for CP images.

Those are just the obvious ways, by "rife" I mean there is any number of ways to get CP onto someones device without them knowing, unless the device itself is being scanned nothing would achieved by this.

And if you dont think people are that messed up, check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#165

Post by colordrops »

notquitehuman wrote: post #63

This was such a weird way for them to announce that they’re no longer pursuing privacy as a differentiation strategy.

And that's all it ever was, perceived differentiation. They were never truly concerned with privacy ever.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#166

Post by busymom0 »

akiselev wrote: post #158

> It's a complete change of narrative and there's no easy way to explain it and still defend Apple's Privacy narrative, wihout doing extreme mental gymnastics. Everyone who took Apple at their word was already doing extreme mental gymnastics because Apple's privacy stance was a farce on borrowed time to begin with. Now it's just blatantly obvious to everyone.

While I knew that the "privacy" stance from Apple in prior years was always a marketing facade to sell more devices, I still continued to believe that they would keep sticking up for privacy as much as possible.

It's kind of funny how I am very suspicious of governments and politicians but when it comes to a trillion dollar corporation, I was giving them more of benefit of doubt. I was wrong.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#167

Post by jmull »

I just do not want Apple scanning my phone for the purpose of finding something they can send to the police.

I’m not even talking about any “slippery slope” scenarios and I’ll never have any of the material they are looking for. And right or wrong, I don’t really fear a false identification, so this isn’t about a worry that they will actually turn me in. I just don’t want them scanning my phone for the purpose of turning me in. I definitely do not want to take an OS update or new phone that does this.

(False positives are the huge flaw in this system, though. There are human judgements by anonymous people using opaque processes without appeal throughout this. A lot of damage can be done before anything goes to court, not to mention courts themselves are susceptible to the illusion of infallible technology. Others have well laid out the scenarios that will result in serious consequences for innocent people.)

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#168

Post by colordrops »

dragonwriter wrote: post #68
justinzollars wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did Apple invest so much engineering effort, into something so complex, without being told to do so? This move doesn't benefit their brand, or the year of advertising they have done to differentiate themselves with Google and facebook as a privacy focused company.

> This move doesn't benefit their brand, or the year of advertising they have done to differentiate themselves with Google and facebook as a privacy focused company. They probably don't want “safe haven for child porn” to be part of their brand distinction from other online firms.

Who is pushing this message though? I've never heard Apple accused of this.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#169

Post by Kim_Bruning »

jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

I wonder how much of this is shifting the overton window. I'd really not have people scanning my data at all really.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." said Cardinal Richelieu in the 16th century.

I'm pretty sure my phone and online accounts hold a lot more data than just six lines. How do I know there won't be accidents, or 'accidents'?

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#170

Post by pehtis »

selsta wrote: post #151
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. I recently invested $3800 in an excellent, new iMac. Now I'm starting to wonder if I should have spent a couple thousand less for a barebones PC and installed my favorite Linux distro. It would have done 75% of what I needed, and the other 25% (music and video work)... well, that's the tradeoff. If anyone in my circle of family, friends, and social network asks my advice, the formerly easy answer "Get a Mac, g…

The CSAM detection technical summary [1] only mentions iOS and iPadOS. If it does come to macOS it will be part of Photos.app, as that's the only way to interact with iCloud Photos. I would recommend you to avoid that app and cloud in general if you care about privacy. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

If it stays like that then it's manageable i guess.
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