Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#161

Post by conductr » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #142

conductr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely false. Hippa applies to all and is meant to protect people from discrimination on health matters. These policies will end up in court eventually and companies will argue the law moves too slowly for the concerns of the day and they had to make a decision they felt was best for safety of their employees.

This is incorrect. HIPPA prevents sharing info without consent. If you choose to give the info to your employer, HIPPA doesn't apply.

Well of course you do get to choose to waive your rights to hippa protections, you can waive any right you want.

But you do not have to give your records and they aren’t allowed to obtain them without your consent. They’re also not allowed to “punish” you for failing to provide your health records. In this context, someone in the office may get promoted and someone WFH may think they deserved it. So they’ll sue on grounds that vaccinated people in the office are receiving advantage. Not saying it’s right or wrong but prior to covid this type of thing was an HR/legal nightmare any company would steer clear of.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#162

Post by ericmay » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #64

ericmay wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Get the JnJ one then? 2) Do you have any evidence to suggest a risk with the mRNA delivery vehicle? If so, what is that risk and why will it materialize in some unknown amount of time instead of after someone gets the vaccine?

1) That's not really a convincing response. There were only two viral vector vaccines ever approved for human use before 2020, both for ebola I believe, and therefore probably not widely administered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine 2. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. [Full disclosure: I have had one shot of BioNTech and am waiting for my second.]

> 1) That's not really a convincing response. There were only two viral vector vaccines ever approved for human use before 2020, both for ebola I believe, and therefore probably not widely administered.

So the concern isn't mRNA or is it?

> 2. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Sure, but it also means you need some sort of empirical or a priori starting point.

There isn't even a hypothesis to gather evidence for except "this vaccine might cause something spooky to happen in the future". What is that spooky thing? Let's gather evidence.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#163

Post by jakebasile » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

some-guy wrote: post #24

jakebasile wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too think it's great when an employer with all the power forces employees to submit to medical procedures against their will in order to continue earning a living. My body my choice, right? Wow, I've never gotten a comment flagged in my years of being here, let alone within minutes! Good to see this a fruitful unbiased discussion forum.

Their company, their choice. As an employee, I would very much enjoy the freedom _from_ COVID-19.

If you're vaccinated, and the vaccine works, how does an unvaccinated person endanger you so greatly that you feel the need to discriminate against them?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#164

Post by thisiscorrect » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #74

aaomidi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vaccines you can get that aren't mRNA based.

Are there vaccines widely available in the US whose delivery mechanism was well established before 2020? The J&J vaccines are viral vector, a class of vaccines which has only been approved for human use twice before, in presumably small numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine

Not yet. I believe Novavax's protein subunit vaccine would use the same mechanism as the MMR vaccine. Well outside my domain but my understanding is that you're given a premade dose of SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins and an adjuvant to boost an immune rsponse to them, instead of producing the spike proteins yourself (as is the case for both mRNA and viral vector vaccines). [1] gives results of their phase 3 trials. The Atlantic [2] gives an overview aimed at a popular audience.

[1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107659 [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-n...

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#165

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

[deleted]

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#166

Post by calvano915 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #97

yurrzz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are living in the USA why not get the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?

This is the third comment I've had to reply to to point out that the J&J vaccine is also based on barely tested technology. Is this really not widely understood? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine

It seems that many commentors in this thread believe that the time for questioning has passed regarding EUA vaccines with completely new mechanisms. If it goes wrong later, well don't go blaming any of them since it was all "at-will" and "your choice".

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#167

Post by delecti » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) mainly prevents medical professionals from sharing your medical information with others. It does nothing to prevent you from sharing your own medical information with anyone you choose. It also does nothing to prevent companies from establishing vaccine requirements as a condition for employment, or to protect your ability to keep your unvaccinated status private if a company has such a requirement. If presented with such a requirement, your options are to either get vaccinated and prove it, or seek employment elsewhere, and HIPAA doesn't give you a third option.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#168

Post by halfjoking » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

safog wrote: post #71

halfjoking wrote: post #25

All WHO approved vaccines? I'm thinking of leaving the country to try to get an inactive virus vaccine. I don't let anyone else run RNA code in my cells. The attack surface is too large.

What exactly do you imagine will happen if your cells run someone else's RNA code? They already run someone else's RNA code when you get infected by any random virus.

There are more types of RNA than just mRNA. https://www.livescience.com/25988-rna-versatile-molecules.ht...

I'm not an expert so I'm not going to speculate which type might be used, but the risk that the government is using (soon to be mandatory) shots as a way to insert a biological backdoor into the masses far outweighs the risk of catching covid again. They want backdoors into all software systems... why wouldn't they want a backdoor into your biology? If not now, then what about when we're on our 5th booster?

If I was dying on my bed from some crazy variant that the government was fearmongering, I would still think that my risk assessment was valid. I'd have no regrets.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#169

Post by wffurr » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #114

wffurr wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the first line of the article: “ Google announced Wednesday it would require all in-office workers and visitors to be vaccinated” Maybe click on it and read it before flying off on the handle?

I'm calling it now, they will require all employees to have this, remote or not.

…but why? Why would they? And why would you think so?

I think you’ve already decided what to believe and are just looking for ways to justify it. You’ve just got to support this “anti-freedom” narrative somehow for whatever mysterious reason that’s important to your ego and sense of self.

I don’t get it.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#170

Post by glenda » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

Vaccine records are nothing new - I remember needing to get a meningitis vaccine to go to college 15 years ago.