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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#161

Post by ce4 »

dijit wrote: post #80
globile wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone unlocking doesn't get much attention, but it is an integral part that no one wants to address or get their hands dirty with. There are many more locked phones in drawers or acting as mere paperweights than people actually care to disclose. Several years back we ran a poll to understand lifetime recycling habits. People aren't proud of dropping a phone and shattering the screen, but they are less proud of having…

Selling locked phones in the UK and EU is already illegal UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54692179 EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Di...

The new phone lock du jour is the manufacturer's anti theft mechanism.

I recently got two iphones from their owners, pulled out of the drawer to monetize them on classifieds. Both locked and unresettable without the previous owners help (one could be unlocked because I got her account password over the phone, huge nogo but she trusts me to not screw with her account). The other not, account was lost.

Apple also now tags and ties both battery and camera to the logicboard. Shame.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#162

Post by Proven »

Translation: a minority made of vocal socialist fanatics assisted by manipulative politicians have managed to introduce a new tax on EU consumers.

Whereas before you could buy a device that would be smaller and cheaper to own because it was built with a minimal number of field-replaceable parts, soon you'll have no choice (whether you want to fix old junk or not) but to buy a bulkier, more expensive device for which suppliers have to stock and sell spare parts and provide support. All of which will reflect in the price of that product.

"Europe is guaranteeing citizens the right". I'm touched! Thank you, Brussels!

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#163

Post by gruez »

paradox242 wrote: post #119
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Common things that existed 20, 30, or even 40 years like refrigerators, coffee machines, dishwashers, washers, and dryers, often lasted 10 or 20 years in some cases, and could be repaired. We have witnessed the steep decline of device reliability in my lifetime, and our expectations are so low that the latest appliance we buy we consider lucky if no problems develop in 2-3 years. Anything serious requires you to usua…

>Common things that existed 20, 30, or even 40 years [...] often lasted 10 or 20 years in some cases

It's worth mentioning that the common problem with these anecdotes is that it doesn't account for survivorship bias. That 30 year old refrigerator at your parent's house might lead you to conclude all refrigerators back in the day lasted 30 years, but in reality you're only seeing the refrigerators that lasted 30 years, not the ones that broke down and were replaced.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#164

Post by ogre_codes »

I kind of wonder if we're looking at solving this the wrong way. Instead of mandating that manufacturers take specific steps to fix the waste problem, maybe it would be better to tag items at manufacture and charge device makers a percentage based on how long before it enters the waste stream.

Manufacturers could solve this by either:

- Making their things easy to repair

- Creating in house recycling programs

- Making equipment more durable and longer lasting

Any combination of the above. By picking one specific way of reducing waste, we are ignoring other factors. Few people care to repair Android phones because you can't upgrade the OS after 2 years regardless. It doesn't matter if the hardware is repairable, the device is greatly devalued at that point. Like wise, if it's super expensive to repair an iPhone, people aren't going to bother and will just replace it.

By focusing on the end result -> Devices entering the waste stream Also, the cost should be the responsibility of the maker. Currently in some place in the US, consumers pay the cost to dispose of/ recycle televisions. The result is we end up with TVs on the side of the road. Often on the way away from the dump where people refuse to pay the disposal fee then toss the TV out the door on the way home.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#165

Post by gruez »

harrygeez wrote: post #63
mywacaday wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube on my mother in laws Samsung tablet from 2013 has stopped working. It has stopped because it has android 4 and you can't update chrome past V42 and youtube won't load without a later version of chrome. I installed firefox and she has access to youtube through the web for now. The tablet is in immaculate condition physically. if it played youtube in 2013 it should be able to play it now, it cost over €500 at t…

There's a good chance you can find a compatible version of LineageOS. That should extend its lifespan considerably

If you go through the lineageos device list there's literally no samsung tablets from 2013 that's currently supported. If you count the devices that had builds but aren't currently supported you get more devices, but I suspect your odds are still not good considering there's several unsupported models for every supported model.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#166

Post by DaedPsyker »

fab1an wrote: post #129

This is to be commended, though I wish the market itself would provide this value as an emergent feature as it does in some other areas (e. g. Leica cameras and lenses, hundreds of thousands of which are still being used after _decades_ - I'm not sure if it's true, but read somewhere that the used market for Leicas is several multiples of Leicas revenue on new stuff)

Leica cameras are also some of the most expensive cameras in the world. Their reputation for the build quality is part of that. More like a fine watch than an iPhone so there will be discrepancy.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#167

Post by ska »

ce4 wrote: post #161
dijit wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling locked phones in the UK and EU is already illegal UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54692179 EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Di...

The new phone lock du jour is the manufacturer's anti theft mechanism. I recently got two iphones from their owners, pulled out of the drawer to monetize them on classifieds. Both locked and unresettable without the previous owners help (one could be unlocked because I got her account password over the phone, huge nogo but she trusts me to not screw with her account). The other not, account was lost. Apple also now t…

This one is a pretty obvious trade off, does anyone know of good data on the impact of Apples policy on iphone theft rates and/or sales rate of stolen phones?

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#168

Post by grecy »

shimonabi wrote: post #146

I recently bought a 50€ electric chainsaw at an Aldi discount store in Europe (against my better judgement). After a few uses, the chain tightening bolt broke into two pieces. I begged them to send me just the bolt, but NO. They said I'm not entitled to repair it. I was even willing to pay for it, but I couldn't find it below 15€ on the internet. So I sent the whole chainsaw to the repair service on their dime and th…

Now you have one with an in-tact screw you should take it out and figure out the size and thread-pitch so if it breaks again you can buy a generic one.

And then post the info online somewhere - even if it's a random Reddit thread Google will pick it up and a search like "Aldi chainsaw chain tightening screw replacement" should pick it up.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#169

Post by ska »

paradox242 wrote: post #119
fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

Common things that existed 20, 30, or even 40 years like refrigerators, coffee machines, dishwashers, washers, and dryers, often lasted 10 or 20 years in some cases, and could be repaired. We have witnessed the steep decline of device reliability in my lifetime, and our expectations are so low that the latest appliance we buy we consider lucky if no problems develop in 2-3 years. Anything serious requires you to usua…

This is true, but it seems to be mostly consumer preference. That 30 year old refrigerator cost more (normalized) and does less than most of the ones you can buy today. When people offer longer lived, better built versions for more money, most people don't buy them.

The same thing happened to furniture.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#170

Post by aembleton »

ogre_codes wrote: post #164

I kind of wonder if we're looking at solving this the wrong way. Instead of mandating that manufacturers take specific steps to fix the waste problem, maybe it would be better to tag items at manufacture and charge device makers a percentage based on how long before it enters the waste stream. Manufacturers could solve this by either: - Making their things easy to repair - Creating in house recycling programs - Makin…

Making the producers responsible for the disposal might be the best way. I don't exactly know how it would be implemented but I'd like to see it for packaging too.

Local authorities should be able to collect up all Mcdonalds packaging and hand it back to them. Make them responsible for its disposal. Then they will be incentivised to reduce the amount of packaging that they produce.

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