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Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

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Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda like when you buy a used car at auction, but it turns out it was stolen.

Except the auction house is next door to a well known car thief's garage, the news is full of stories about a string of car thefts, and someone tells you those cars are probably stolen making it crime to buy.

Such is not the reputation of Christie's.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gee, who would have thought that a super rare artifact well known for being in a specific museum in a specific country ravaged by war and all of a sudden showing up at auction would be stolen. They must have done a hell of a job with their due diligence.

compared to the 99% of the rest of museums in dc, which are publicly funded, the Bible museum was private and needed to show return on investment which was covid interuppted, especially after it just opened and took over newseum real estate (capital prime).

The artifact in question was purchased LONG before COVID19 happened.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#163

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

Also interesting how NYTimes doesn't even mention Christie's until paragraph 20.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Government was stable, until the US of A decided to bless them with freedom and democracy. The Iraqi dictatorship was not stable at all. There were constant purges, murders, by Saddam Hussein's regime. That occurred the entire time Saddam was in power. Please explain how that's a stable situation. The fact that Saddam had to constantly murder members of his own government, demonstrates beyond doubt that it was…

You seem to be confusing dictatorship with instability. On your criterion Russia and Turkey would also be classified as unstable, which they do not seem to be. And off course, stability is relative. Compared to the current state of affairs, Iraqi government 20 years back was far more stable.

The Soviet Union was systematically vandalizing their history to prop up dogma. I hope we rescued anything we possibly could. Thirty years of sanity after that is nice to see but a pretty modest track record.

But I think I'm with Danny Hillis, anything buried and forgotten is safer than anything in a museum.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#165

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

It seems like they were warned in 2010.[1] They're a museum, surely they have experts on staff who can evaluate and verify what they're buying.

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-arti...

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

Medieval French village https://www.solosophie.com/medieval-town-of-dinan/

Modern Bagdad https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y2BD66C-W58

I dont find any descriptions of specific surgeries here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_in_the_medieval_Isl...

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#167

> Hobby Lobby bought the tablet in a private sale, after a Hobby Lobby representative viewed the tablet in London. The auction house shipped the tablet to its New York office and, from there, hand-carried it to Hobby Lobby's headquarters in Oklahoma City, "so that Hobby Lobby could avoid incurring a New York sales tax," according to prosecutors. Oy vey. I don't know how serious this is but it's not a great look. Is t…

This to me is the most egregious part: > [...] authorities said it bought thousands of artifacts that had been smuggled out of Iraq. Some of the items on display at the Museum of the Bible had been looted from previously unknown archaeological sites. Breathtakingly unethical.

Well...yes allegedly buying looted artifacts is bad, but that was already the headline. I didn't realize that allegations of sales tax evasion(? not sure if it was a charge, or just an interesting tidbit pointed out by prosecutors), a pretty pedestrian crime in comparison, would also accompany these charges. It's sort of like: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJa...

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#168

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

Not going to find much sympathy for Hobby Lobby on Reddit or HN.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the auction house is next door to a well known car thief's garage, the news is full of stories about a string of car thefts, and someone tells you those cars are probably stolen making it crime to buy.

Such is not the reputation of Christie's.

If they had only made this one sketchy purchase, maybe reputation would explain something. Or if there had been any record of them checking the claims made before purchasing this tablet.

Or if Hobby Lobby hadn't publicly accepted that these actions were illegal.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

The Muslim world was on the decline from ~1100, before the Mongols were anything of note to them. Yes, the Mongols delivered the coup de grace though.
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