Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 283 posts

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#141

Post by Alkhwarizmi »

brigandish wrote: post #130
nemo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques This is a very misleading distortion of history. The limestone casing on the Great Pyramid was destroyed in an earthquake in 1308 CE. The limestone rubble was pulled from the base of the pyramid and repurposed for building though much of it was also burned in kilns for lime like the marble of ma…

If that "Golden Age" includes the destruction of Nalanda[1], then forgive me if I agree with the person you're replying to, it was an incredibly destructive empire that aggressively expanded and destroyed anything that deemed heretic. As such, it's not exceptional in either sense. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#Decline_and_destructio... Edit - As I can't reply to stuff like this (it deserved to die) but in…

I think your conflating Far East Asians and Middle East! Learn your geography first before you speak

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#142

Post by boomboomsubban »

ctdonath wrote: post #131

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim.

They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried very hard to verify this tablets history given their record.

There are other criminals involved, but Hobby Lobby was not a victim.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#143

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #142
ctdonath wrote: post #131

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried very hard to verify this tablets hist…

Kinda like when you buy a used car at auction, but it turns out it was stolen.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#144

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

deathgrips wrote: post #35
keiferski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

The Europeans were emptying their chamber pots nearly 1000 years after the Greeks invented most major math theory and were sending water hundreds of miles on aqueducts.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#145

Post by boomboomsubban »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #143
boomboomsubban wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried very hard to verify this tablets hist…

Kinda like when you buy a used car at auction, but it turns out it was stolen.

Except the auction house is next door to a well known car thief's garage, the news is full of stories about a string of car thefts, and someone tells you those cars are probably stolen making it crime to buy.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#146

Post by luckydata »

ctdonath wrote: post #131

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an…

gee, who would have thought that a super rare artifact well known for being in a specific museum in a specific country ravaged by war and all of a sudden showing up at auction would be stolen. They must have done a hell of a job with their due diligence.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#147

Post by luckydata »

deathgrips wrote: post #35
keiferski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The destruction of Baghdad itself, including the House of Wisdom (large library), by the Mongols in 1258 is probably a more apt comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

Ehm, plumbing is a bad example since the Romans did that WAY ahead of the Muslim world. For that AND sidewalks, you're welcome. Thanks for the numbers, that was handy.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#148

Post by feteru »

nemo wrote: post #97
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say the same thing about a lot of conquerors including the Arab armies. For example, when the Arab armies conquered North Africa, it was one of the richest and most developed areas in the Mediterranean. After the Arab conquest, it became a backwater and never achieved the prominence it had before. Also, in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used…

>in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques This is a very misleading distortion of history. The limestone casing on the Great Pyramid was destroyed in an earthquake in 1308 CE. The limestone rubble was pulled from the base of the pyramid and repurposed for building though much of it was also burned in kilns for lime like the marble of ma…

Any recommendations for fun-to-read books about this period?

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#149

Post by nemo »

brigandish wrote: post #130
nemo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in Egypt, the Great Pyramid was once covered with gleaming white limestone, but this was removed and used to build mosques This is a very misleading distortion of history. The limestone casing on the Great Pyramid was destroyed in an earthquake in 1308 CE. The limestone rubble was pulled from the base of the pyramid and repurposed for building though much of it was also burned in kilns for lime like the marble of ma…

If that "Golden Age" includes the destruction of Nalanda[1], then forgive me if I agree with the person you're replying to, it was an incredibly destructive empire that aggressively expanded and destroyed anything that deemed heretic. As such, it's not exceptional in either sense. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#Decline_and_destructio... Edit - As I can't reply to stuff like this (it deserved to die) but in…

Acknowledging that virtually every major civilization's Golden Age was accompanied by expansionist military imperialism and was destructive as well as creative is a fine position to take, but were you to take that position honestly then you wouldn't be singling out only one specific civilization to spit venom at. That's why you really are making a racist argument, even if your biases blind you to your racism.

edit: "racist" was technically incorrect - bigoted is a more correct term.

Re: Authorities say Hobby Lobby's Gilgamesh tablet is stolen, must go back to Iraq

#150

Post by cortesoft »

luckydata wrote: post #147
deathgrips wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…

Ehm, plumbing is a bad example since the Romans did that WAY ahead of the Muslim world. For that AND sidewalks, you're welcome. Thanks for the numbers, that was handy.

> you're welcome

I am confused... are you an ancient Roman?

Post reply on HN