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I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

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Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares if they get banned from a fraudulent business? Why would anyone want to continue doing business with a company if they treat you this way? When I'm at the point of doing a chargeback, it's a "burn bridges" move and I'm not going to be doing business with the company anymore, regardless of whether they ban me.

In the modern internet world, there's very often little/no choice of services. Initially there is competition; one gets an edge; everybody flocks to that service; the other services wither and die. So the idea that "I can just take my business elsewhere" is maybe a dying notion, in this modern economy. They're not brick-and-mortar stores where you can just walk down the street to another one.

Hotels are brick-and-mortar, and there are a lot of them. If one treats you badly you can (sometimes literally) walk down the street and do business at another one. The travel industry is a particularly bad example of little/no choice since there is so much competition, including online.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#162
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find quality accommodations. In my view this is major. To describe it better - need to read "between the lines" of misleading representations of properties. Lots of property owners goes to great extends to make property look way better, bigger, nicer than it really is and to conceal obvious negative points that become app…

How is this different from a hotel? From rentals in general? I guess you know what you're going to get if you're staying at a national chain that you've stayed at before, but there's not always one available or in your budget.

One important difference is that hotels get much larger review volumes than a single AirBnB, meaning sites like TripAdvisor can give you a good picture of what the place is really like.

Another is that it's much harder to run a scam at scale. "Becky and Andrew" can get away with this for an extended period because tomorrow they can be "Melody and Joe" and "Jane and Todd" the day after. Marriott has been Marriott since 1957, and can't change quickly. They know that if they start running scams, they will hear about it. Initially from reporters, eventually from state attorneys general.

A third is that AirBnB, especially in their IPO runup, has a strong interest in a) maximizing revenue and profit nubmers, and b) covering up problems. Many billions of dollars are on the line here. As we've seen with Groupon and Uber and WeWork, individuals can get very rich if they can create the appearance of runaway success at IPO time, regardless of long-term prospects.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#163
post #73

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

Yeah I've stayed at lot of airbnbs (20-30 a year) and only had good to great experiences. I've met a lot of hosts that I specifically look up when I visit their city again. I've had plenty where they weren't exactly what I expected, like thinking a cabin I was renting was in the woods from the pictures but it was on a gravel driveway with trees in the background, but my trip wasn't ruined or anything. I've unfortunat…

Having a fixed cleaning fee and a per-night charge actually reflects the property owner's costs. They have to pay someone to clean, do laundry, re-stock the crackers and cheap wine. Of course this can be taken too far, but I actually prefer this cost structure because I get a price break if I have a long stay vs an average flat fee per night.

Source: I know several Airbnb owners, and the people who clean their properties.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....what kind of behavior were you expecting? AirBnb has always had atrocious customer service.

I disagree. I've been both a host and customer for many years, and in general I've found the customer service to be good or even very good for resolving issues either as a host or as a customer. In fact, many 'scare' articles about airbnb puzzle me, because it seem seems that the problems could have been avoided if the guest had read the reviews and/or booked with a superhost (or other host with a history of good rev…

> or other host with a history of good reviews

But how can I trust that the reviews are good if, as this article talks about, people are hesitant to post anything but good reviews for fear of receiving a retaliatory review?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#165

I'm going on a 10-day vacation overseas at the end of this month. Given how infrequently I do big vacations (a personal issue I'm working to overcome), I have zero tolerance for surprises when it comes to my accommodations. I simply look for large and established four- or five-star hotels that have been around for a while and have numerous positive reviews across several web sites. Another hack I do is to use the "!m…

One thing with Japanese hotels is they have a thing about the ratio of people:beds. We traveled to Tokyo a few years ago with our two pre-teen sons and it was very difficult to find a hotel that would fit us into one room.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#166
> Airbnb advises the guest to request a cancellation if they’re “not okay with the switch.”

This is beyond vile. The booking had already been cancelled by definition by the host, the refund should be automatic. They act like it's Hotel where you haven't booked a specific room. I'll never touch this POS company.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#167

There are also some smaller-time scams hosts run. I was forced to pay a three-figure cleaning fee by an AirBnB in DC earlier this year because they claimed I left a stain on their couch -- which I never even sat on (also, I was by myself, so it's not as though another one of my guests did something to it). I appealed and asked for photos of the supposed stain, but they ghosted me and in the end AirBnB ruled in their…

Try calling your Credit Card company and flag it as fraud. That's what I would do. That failing I'd submit a police report.

I’d immediately call Amex and tell them it was an unauthorized charge, then file a police report, and maybe go to small claims court.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#168

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I've stayed at 22 airbnb's 11 were fine. 11 had issues most with false advertising in some form or another. One listed the wrong location and if they had listed the correct location I would not have rented even though the room's interior matched. A few claimed to include onsite parking but didn't which of course is very inconvenient. The last one that did that claimed "Easy Street Parking" as AirBnb's blatant lie. I…

I have a similar rate with AirBnb -- 50% were great, the rest had "issues," which ranged from exaggerated claims ("minutes from downtown") to serious safety problems. Agree that Airbnb's policies (or lack of them) are contributing to the situation -- for instance, no serious punishment for false advertising.

But I have a hard time dumping bad policies on YC's plate, or demanding that YC "report you to the authorities" unless criminal activity/negligence is involved.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#169
Airbnb won't provide a full refund in many of the cases from the article but shouldn't you still be able to file a charge back on your credit card and get your money back without dealing with Airbnb?

Does it work like that or do I have a misunderstanding of how charge backs work?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#170
I'm not sure how to fix all the issues outlined in this article, but I think that a 14-day, double-blind review period started at checkout would alleviate some of the trust issue presented here. That is to say:

Once checkout has completed, both Guest and Host have 14 days (21? 30?) to write their reviews (neither party can see the others' review). At the end of that period, both reviews are visible on the site and cannot be edited.

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