I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#101

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #92

ceejayoz wrote: post #33

I wonder why AirBnB doesn't pay people Uber-style to inspect properties. $5-10 to go to an address and check that it can be accessed and matches the photos as an unannounced spot check? Send someone out on first listing, periodically, and every time a host cancels for a "maintenance issue" to verify the claim.

Who would do all that travel and work for $5? That’s a small fraction of minimum wage.

The same people who currently deliver UberEats or pick things at the grocery store for Instacart for a couple bucks.

It'd be a small fraction of minimum wage if it took an hour. It should not take an hour.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#102

Post by dfxm12 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

gesman wrote: post #74

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

>> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find quality accommodations. In my view this is major. To describe it better - need to read "between the lines" of misleading representations of properties. Lots of property owners goes to great extends to make property look way better, bigger, nicer than it really is and to conceal obvious negative points that become app…

How is this different from a hotel? From rentals in general?

I guess you know what you're going to get if you're staying at a national chain that you've stayed at before, but there's not always one available or in your budget.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#103

Post by michaelt » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #56

bluetidepro wrote: post #20

Mentioned this in another comment, but it blows my mind that the author ends with: > "Even after a month of digging through public records, scouring the internet for clues, repeatedly calling Airbnb and confronting the man who called himself Patrick, I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either. Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting…

Even after a >>>month of digging through public records...Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel." It's constantly amazing to see how little people value their time when it comes to stuff like this. Maybe when we're getting yearly salaries we don't compute out the hourly cost but, man, do the math once in a while.

If everyone knows you can rob or scam me for $50 and I'll hand it over and not go to the cops (because doing so isn't worth my time) there's really no downside to robbing or scamming me.

On the other hand, if everyone knows when robbed or scammed I will doggedly pursue every avenue until a much higher price has been extracted from the robbers or scammers, the downside is nonzero.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#104

Post by dfxm12 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

mattrp wrote: post #85

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experience a switcheroo in Chicago similar to the article. However that’s where the similarities end. The place was in the same neighborhood, it was comparable to the listing but the only catch was we were told not say Airbnb to anyone in the building but to say guests of…

I would say the part I find most disturbing about what I see on Airbnb is ... the presence of cameras in every room. One place we stayed at had obvious cameras on the outside but then just as I’m about to go to sleep I look up at the ceiling and there’s another one in the chandelier above the bed.

Yeah, it's policy that you have to disclose any cameras inside the room in the listing. It's not clear what happens when you do find one though. You spend all day traveling and are in a strange city. On the one hand, you're entitled to get out of there with no penalty, but on the other, it might be hard to find alternate accommodations.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#105

Post by mannykannot » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

mattrp wrote: post #91

jancsika wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find quality accommodations. How do you corroborate the information on those properties? The clean, affordable, well-placed hotels I've stayed in had reams of reviews and news articles from various sources to confirm they were indeed clean, affordable, and well-placed. The cost of faking all those sources must be orders of…

You use common sense - I have been a host of properties and I would say Airbnb does not go to any lengths to encourage you to misrepresent. In fact they do the opposite - with your listing you are building a contract so they encourage you to be as specific as possible and accurately describe the guest experience and your expectations as much as possible. They also strictly govern guest interactions so you can’t provi…

While AirBnB nominally "encourage[s] you to be as specific as possible and accurately describe the guest experience and your expectations as much as possible", in reality, the way it handles feedback and complaint resolution discourages the candid reporting of problems, as was evident in several places in the article. The root cause of this problem is that AirBnB makes no attempt to determine the truth of any complaint. Nor, apparently, is it doing much to identify patterns of abuse.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#106

Post by gesman » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #102

gesman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find quality accommodations. In my view this is major. To describe it better - need to read "between the lines" of misleading representations of properties. Lots of property owners goes to great extends to make property look way better, bigger, nicer than it really is and to conceal obvious negative points that become app…

How is this different from a hotel? From rentals in general? I guess you know what you're going to get if you're staying at a national chain that you've stayed at before, but there's not always one available or in your budget.

"What you pay is what you get" rule applies.

Hotel chains are also experts in misrepresentations and omissions often fueled by fake positive reviews. During my recent stay in Manhattan at $350+/night hotel - the whole building was wrapped in construction fabrics and workers were walking right in front of my window all week.

This of course haven't been mentioned during reservation.

But at least you deal with host management in person, and not with some shady pimp hiding in a background.

And then of course - you can file chargeback with credit card if everything else fails.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#107

Post by eagsalazar2 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

The amazing thing to me is how rarely this really happens. Some people love to say that human nature is fundamentally greedy and deceitful but here you have an enormous system based entirely on trust and reputation (since apparently AirBnB doesn't have checks beyond that) and although there are examples of abuse, overwhelmingly people have a good experience.

However I think most likely it isn't that AirBnB has no checks on hosts, they are just a big stupid company dealing with a messy problem. I've heard similar complaints from hosts with their own set of anecdotes where they felt unfairly abused by renters who unfairly complain and AirBnB applying decisions without any transparency or recourse.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#108

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:44 PM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #3

kop316 wrote: post #2

I'll ask the dumb question (I don't use AirBnB): why not dispute the charge via a credit card?

Presumably AirBnB would ban the user and the user still wants to be able to use the service in the future.

Who cares if they get banned from a fraudulent business? Why would anyone want to continue doing business with a company if they treat you this way? When I'm at the point of doing a chargeback, it's a "burn bridges" move and I'm not going to be doing business with the company anymore, regardless of whether they ban me.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#109

Post by scammedAnon » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:44 PM UTC

I was similarly baited on the Chase credit card travel site. Bought a few nights at what was advertised as a Hilton in Miami but on the day of got instructions that made it clear we weren't staying at a Hilton. Turned out to be a vacation rental in a condo in the same building as the Hilton. The listing on the chase travel site used a similar name as the Hilton (neither the real or fake actually use the word "Hilton" in their names), same address, same photos (pool, restaurant, front desk, rooms, etc), and even figured out a way to list the reviews for the Hilton in it's listing.

Ultimately we stayed elsewhere because the condos were flop houses. Chase didn't have any interest in helping us or making it right after dozens of calls and hours of conversations. As far as I can tell the "properties" have all been removed. (There were similar listings for other name chain hotels like the W chain)

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#110

Post by Phillips126 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

mattrp wrote: post #85

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experience a switcheroo in Chicago similar to the article. However that’s where the similarities end. The place was in the same neighborhood, it was comparable to the listing but the only catch was we were told not say Airbnb to anyone in the building but to say guests of…

I'm surprised you still seem to recommend AirBnb despite these experiences. As a family of 5 (3 kids) I know it can be frustrating and expensive to find hotel accommodations that work. But the strange (switcheroo, don't mention AirBnb to anyone!) to downright disturbing (cameras above the bed?!) experiences would never have me using AirBnb again. Maybe I just have issues trusting people... I'm sure there are great hosts but I don't like to gamble.

Curious were the cameras in the bedroom pointing at the bed and attempting to be concealed? Huge fear of mine having some psychopath watching videos of my wife and I getting (un)dressed or intimate.