I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#151

Post by marcodave » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #69

It's always interesting to see scammers at work. The nature of scammers, atleast the ones that get caught, put in 95% effort, and it's that last 5% that gets them caught. In this case, imagine if instead of trash furniture and minimal decor in the "switch" property of "bait and switch" they put in half decent stuff. Renters would probably all accept the story of a plumber and move on. Instead, they fill the property…

Well, if a scam is successful and unnoticeable, by definition we won't see any articles about those, right?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#152

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

Jd wrote: post #112

dfxm12 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a hotel? From rentals in general? I guess you know what you're going to get if you're staying at a national chain that you've stayed at before, but there's not always one available or in your budget.

HotelTonight (sadly recently purchased by AirBnB) has a very robust review system and a very responsive customer support system. If you ever have a bad experience in a hotel room while booking through their app you can always contact them and they will contact hotel management and the problem will almost always very quickly be resolved. Booking.com has way more properties but does not always properly vet them. Its ea…

>HotelTonight (sadly recently purchased by AirBnB) has a very robust review system and a very responsive customer support system.

How is this different from Hilton/Marriott/IHG/Choice/Wyndham's current options for customer support?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#153

Post by steelframe » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

I'm going on a 10-day vacation overseas at the end of this month. Given how infrequently I do big vacations (a personal issue I'm working to overcome), I have zero tolerance for surprises when it comes to my accommodations. I simply look for large and established four- or five-star hotels that have been around for a while and have numerous positive reviews across several web sites. Another hack I do is to use the "!mill" directive in DDG to filter out corpspeak and SEO-type stuff. I try to book directly with the hotels whenever possible -- although sometimes language and cultural barriers make that prohibitively tricky. I once spent half an hour trying to book something on a Japanese-language hotel web site (making generous use of page source and Google translate) before giving up and going through Booking.com, since there are apparently things about Japanese hospitality culture that I'm not clued in to.

In the end, I probably pay something like 50% more for my accommodations than I could if I were to take chances with AirBNB. But for me, the insecurity and potential for high-stress situations once I arrive in a foreign country just aren't worth it.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#154

Post by JackFr » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

itake wrote: post #29

wholepointofcc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try calling your Credit Card company and flag it as fraud. That's what I would do. That failing I'd submit a police report.

That doesn't work well b/c then Airbnb just bans you from the platform

They are stealing from you.

Would you keep going to a grocer who fraudulently billed your credit card, just cause they were cheaper?

How much cheaper than a hotel was your stay after a 3 digit cleaning fee?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#155

Post by sailfast » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

Because I have kids (they're smaller, under 7) I can't really risk getting shafted at an AirBnB. Our experiences were so up and down that I rarely look to the site anymore for options. Suite hotels are prevalent, and work great for families, and you can be relatively certain it'll be a fine place to hang your hat for the night.

For longer-term rentals, I find it's best to work through local property managers or maybe VRBO, where you're dealing with the person more directly. That said, the destination probably makes a HUGE difference in terms of how you are treated.

The fact that AirBnB's rating system is so gamed that you can't trust any reviews, and the fact that their policies for refunds skew towards the property owners and not guests means that my trust in the site is low. I'd probably only risk it again if there are hotels around as backups. That said, I'm also typically looking for cheaper places, so the scam-level density is probably higher.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#156

Post by marcodave » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

btbuildem wrote: post #36

I'd be tempted to work that flophouse over with a sledgehammer and a crowbar. Would the scammers have any recourse?

With the scammers having your personal data, name and (maybe?) address? I'd think thrice before starting a feud with a scammer.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#157

Post by dboreham » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

mattrp wrote: post #85

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experience a switcheroo in Chicago similar to the article. However that’s where the similarities end. The place was in the same neighborhood, it was comparable to the listing but the only catch was we were told not say Airbnb to anyone in the building but to say guests of…

I haven't stayed at Airbnbs in the US but it has been a common experience in Europe to be instructed to say we're guests of the owner if asked. I assume this is about either HOA rules on subletting, or tax/insurance/regulatory issues.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#158

Post by greggman2 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

I've stayed at 22 airbnb's 11 were fine. 11 had issues most with false advertising in some form or another. One listed the wrong location and if they had listed the correct location I would not have rented even though the room's interior matched. A few claimed to include onsite parking but didn't which of course is very inconvenient. The last one that did that claimed "Easy Street Parking" as AirBnb's blatant lie. I usually had to park a mile way or pay for a $25 a night garage a few blocks away. One claimed wifi but was actually just stealing it from the neighbors and it only worked in a corner of the apartment if lucky. Another who I asked if their heaters worked, because a previous one was cold, said yes but when I got their the heater was as loud as a vacuum cleaner and their wifi had a notices "don't use much as it will run out". This for a place I expected to get work done. AirBnb in Japan is full of listing claiming 2 or 3 bedrooms but that actually only have 1 and this isn't a cultural issue. Look at any J-apartment rental site and there is zero ambiguity about what 1, 2, and 3 bedrooms are.

It bugs me that YC appears to have absolutely no policy of conduct for the companies they fund. It's totally within their power to say in so many words "be evil and we'll pull your funding and report you to the authorities". IMO AirBnB is complicit in these issues. There is no punishment for bad listings and often AirBnB doesn't even have the options in their system to list them correctly. They even removed my review that included pictures of proof.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#159

Post by as-j » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #34

as-j wrote: post #6

Why didn't the journalist contact Airbnb in the first place? Or after he arrived at the 2nd place and it wasn't the location listed/promised. (yes I can understand being tired, frustrated, etc) Last minute host cancellation is the one thing they can actually something they help with since it ruins the marketplace for them. As a host I've had my set of horror storied interacting with Airbnb. Most hosts do try really h…

> Why didn't the journalist contact Airbnb in the first place? Or after he arrived at the 2nd place and it wasn't the location listed/promised. (yes I can understand being tired, frustrated, etc) She did: > When I asked about the status of my refund, they ghosted, which led me to contact Airbnb. Though I had been moved to a flophouse and then told to leave early, Airbnb only refunded me $399 of my $1,221.20, and only…

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. Why didn't she contact airbnb immediately when the host suggested an alternate place that cost more. This is a big red flag, and a simple phone call probably would probably short circuited the article.

And yes this has happened to friends, showed up a place that wasn't as described/ready/etc. Called and complained and ended up having airbnb book them a hotel.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#160

Post by dboreham » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #76

julienchastang wrote: post #51

There have been a few threads about AirBnb lately with a lot of people reporting negative experiences so I will add my own $0.02. I have stayed in many AirBnbs. The reason is, I find it is the only way to have a tolerable family vacation is when everyone has their own sleeping quarters. When we are all piled into one (often overpriced and not so clean) hotel room, it makes for less than ideal sleep and everyone ends…

> The main downside for me concerning AirBnb is it takes a long time to analyze the listings to find quality accommodations. How do you corroborate the information on those properties? The clean, affordable, well-placed hotels I've stayed in had reams of reviews and news articles from various sources to confirm they were indeed clean, affordable, and well-placed. The cost of faking all those sources must be orders of…

I only stay at Airbnb's that have at least some reviews. It doesn't take too long to determine if reviews are sock-puppet-generated or genuine. You have to actually stay at the property to write a review, which means paying for the stay since Airbnb process the payment. Obviously you can create wash transactions but the transaction fees would still be significant.

Another approach is to sent a question to the property manager. Invent some pretext to ask a question. I find that people trying to scam customers on the product also have poor customer service skills. So if I don't get a prompt, cogent and polite response, I move on..