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The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

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Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#161

Post by yebyen »

war1025 wrote: post #83
Vel0cityX wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weirdly enough it's good to appear somewhat "incompetent", but still in reality be able to deliver How so? To maintain lower expectations & set yourself up to surprise people positively?

What came to mind first for me about this situation was this parable from Luke 14: """ When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, 'Give this person your seat.' Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, tak…

Interesting. That kind of reminds me of the "two tokens" approach to guiding customer service conversations in a favorable direction, where something has gone wrong.

They say that there are two tokens on the table at the start of any such interaction, one says "this is very serious" and the other labeled "it's not a big deal." If you are receiving a report of a problem from a customer, you are best advised to pick up the "very serious" token, as by signaling that you take the problem or issue reported most seriously, you can reassure the other person and alleviate their feelings of how serious it is for them.

Whichever token is picked up first, the other party will always take the other one. It is serious enough for them to call, so they will be appreciative if the service person who is responding clearly takes the matter very seriously. Even to the point of taking the opposite position, disarmed.

If you instead chose the other token, to signal with your speech that it's not a very big problem by saying for example "that's no problem at all," then you may get a very different response. "Well for me, it is a problem, and I need it resolved quickly." Instead of being disarmed, the person may feel a need to defend their reason for calling.

I got this from "It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work"

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#162

Post by yebyen »

twic wrote: post #103
bigred100 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone makes an effort to present themselves as extraordinarily competent I’ll start watching them to try and figure out whether it’s true. If they’re extraordinarily competent then there’s not much to conclude. If they’re just normal but exceedingly interested in looking competent, I know they’re self-promoters and not really trustworthy. If they act normal and are of normal competence, then again there’s not mu…

Overt signals of competence are a huge red flag to me. I've been lucky enough to work with some brilliant people, and most of them seem like baffled slobs when one first meets them.

One who is especially talented may often have the appearance of not knowing what they are doing, if you watch them closely while they are learning the behavior of a system. I've seen it suggested that there is a certain pattern of inquisitive behavior that can be seen in this kind of person, that has almost the appearance of a "random walk."

This may appear to the untrained eye as incompetence, maybe imagine the dumbest possible way to navigate an interface, but in the thought process of someone who learns a thing inside and out, behaving in this way can actually promote a more complete understanding.

I mean to elaborate on the idea of "baffled slobs" – not sure if this is exactly what you meant.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#163

Post by bigred100 »

yebyen wrote: post #162
twic wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overt signals of competence are a huge red flag to me. I've been lucky enough to work with some brilliant people, and most of them seem like baffled slobs when one first meets them.

One who is especially talented may often have the appearance of not knowing what they are doing, if you watch them closely while they are learning the behavior of a system. I've seen it suggested that there is a certain pattern of inquisitive behavior that can be seen in this kind of person, that has almost the appearance of a "random walk." This may appear to the untrained eye as incompetence, maybe imagine the dumb…

Paraphrase of a quotation of some guy’s high school wrestling coach I read many years ago:

Dumb athletes are better at the start because they’ll just do what their coach tells them, but smart ones eventually overtake them as they figure things out.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#164

Post by Baeocystin »

lnsru wrote: post #26
Baeocystin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...so go to the canteen anyway and talk while you eat together? I can think of plenty of times where a shared lunch with some co-workers was a mix of people bringing food and buying from the cafe. Having agreements in writing is important for reference. Being present for their creation (and therefore having a say as it takes shape) is worth it.

You are right, I should do it. It’s very important to participate in office politics and decision making process. I think, other companies have separate meetings for this. But I am not going to stay here for 5 years.

I can 100% guarantee you that if you find yourself at a company that has a dining room available for lunch, business planning will happen there, one way or another. It is human nature to discuss things while breaking bread.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#165

Post by ozzmotik »

Vel0cityX wrote: post #66
Tade0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought I'm such a coworker. Two reasons I do this: 1. I don't care about "upward mobility". 2. People don't see me as a threat to theirs, which is a good thing, because you don't want an overly ambitious junior developer trying to prove his(or hers) worth by picking on you. Reason 0. is that weirdly enough it's good to appear som…

> weirdly enough it's good to appear somewhat "incompetent", but still in reality be able to deliver How so? To maintain lower expectations & set yourself up to surprise people positively?

underpromise -> overdeliver

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#166

Post by ozzmotik »

ericmcer wrote: post #118
thomk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I worked with someone who rotated the same asinine 1/2 dozen or so comments about me and my appearance or arrival time etc. It annoyed the shit out of me, but, I also realized he probably didn't know another way. Sometimes people are trying to find any way, in their limited ability, to connect with someone who is clearly smarter than they are. So they pick on you. A good first attempt to stop this is to try to…

Just a small tip since this entire thread is about socializing effectively, referring to yourself as extremely smart and others as morons bothering you with their attempts at friendship will not earn you points. In general if you think you are smart the best way to demonstrate that is not by telling people about it. To paraphrase Geto Boys: “real gangstas don’t flex nuts cause real gangstas know they got em”

this was so unexpected to read here (though i suppose the presence of that song in office space allowed it to permeate into geek culture) but I really appreciate you using their words to make a salient point. rip bushwick bill

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#167

Post by feintruled »

coldtea wrote: post #113
feintruled wrote: post #57

It can be quite a minefield. I worked with a guy whose chit-chat policy was disconcerting - stating the bleedin' obvious. "You are in early today!" "You are in late today!" "You are on time today!" "Wearing the red shirt again, I see!" "Got your hair cut!" While this 'say what you see' served as a functional ice-breaker, as an introvert I found it strangely confrontational, almost like an interrogation. I felt like I…

> While this 'say what you see' served as a functional ice-breaker, as an introvert I found it strangely confrontational, almost like an interrogation On the other hand, why see "introvert" or "extrovert" as something that you essentially are, and not an accidental attribute, one can, and perhaps should, work on? In that case, his 'say what you see' routine would be a good testing ground to stop caring as much for th…

> In that case, his 'say what you see' routine would be a good testing ground to stop caring as much for the supposed "confrontation"...

You are quite right here - it is a perfect learning opportunity. After all, I know it is coming, and so can prepare for it. I did make my peace with it in the end, the key was to connect on a deeper social level so we could talk about something more interesting. Essentially just ignoring the captain obvious opener in the same way you skip past 'how are you?' as a greeting, not a question.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#168

Post by feintruled »

lonelappde wrote: post #139
feintruled wrote: post #57

It can be quite a minefield. I worked with a guy whose chit-chat policy was disconcerting - stating the bleedin' obvious. "You are in early today!" "You are in late today!" "You are on time today!" "Wearing the red shirt again, I see!" "Got your hair cut!" While this 'say what you see' served as a functional ice-breaker, as an introvert I found it strangely confrontational, almost like an interrogation. I felt like I…

It's a minefield in your mind only. A mindfield. Every example you gave can be deftly handled with: "Yes I did. Good morning! I'm going to grab a morning $beverage now." Optionally mention what you are going to work on after you get the beverage.

So my problem with THIS is that it is a very unbalanced conversation. He makes the zero-effort opener, and then I have to perform the heavy lifting. (Of course, I could just get in first ;-)

But fair comment.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#169

Post by not_a_moth »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #105
not_a_moth wrote: post #11

I think the essential office chitchat issue is "being yourself" vs. "seeming like a high quality professional". I've found out the hard way that relaxing and aiming for a real conversation carries a high % chance of saying something unbecoming of a team leader. Better pay attention to appearances when you're at work. I don't understand coworkers who say silly things at the lunch table without a second thought, or tho…

Your comments remind me why I pushed out all of the people on my team that are fundamentally anti-social. It becomes such an annoying drag. Thank god I did. I get one life to live and refuse to jump through bullshit hoops for people who think they are more important than what they really are - such as yourself.

You're confusing a basic drive to get ahead with self importance. If you're giving your life's labor to someone else's company, you better get the most out of it in return.

Since you targeted me, your attitude seems like the typical Silicon Valley "lifestyle" worker, which I think is the most uninspiring type of SV person around.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#170

Post by borumpilot »

Porthos9K wrote: post #96
borumpilot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me and my wife that works basically the same, but I have found method to the madness. 1. She loves it when I come to save her when the tone of the spontaneous discussion is not to her liking and nothing kills said discussions faster then me participating. 2. When I strike it, my conversations tends to be very subject focused and will leave me and the other person smarter and more informed. So what I do now is eit…

I know you probably meant "continuous" instead of "continence", but I can't help but chuckle at the usage.

:) You are right, thanks for pointing that out.

After looking up continence it fits like a glove :)

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