Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–168 of 168 posts

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#161

Post by Fjolsvith »

sn9 wrote: post #156
Fjolsvith wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now my question is, how do we become unconnected? That's easy. The people of the Amazon pass some laws that protect their land. America has this form of protection vs exploitation. Brazil needs to get with the program. Its not an American problem - I eat corn fed beef and pork from Kansas and Nebraska.

By buying meat in a global market, you are creating demand for meat, which affects all markets. The only way the purchase of a good can fail to move global markets is to be wholly disconnected from the market. This means you would have to live in a country that neither imports nor exports meat at all.

Then by your logic, you are contributing to global warming by just breathing carbon dioxide out, and ought to disconnect yourself from the global atmosphere.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#162

Post by dwild »

addicted wrote: post #143
dwild wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if you are not doing any of that, you are still connected because you live in the middle of a society that reaps economic and material benefits from the structures that ultimately incentivize said deforestation. Then they are also responsible because their government profit from it? Everything is connected... the fact that it's connected doesn't means anything. Your comment won't show anything, it won't change…

Except “their government”, in this case, is actively fighting against them. The whole point is that Bolsonaro has declared open season on the Amazon and the tribes living in it.

> Except “their government”, in this case, is actively fighting against them.

It's not because the government is working against them over the Amazon that they don't profit at all from it. All you need is using the government resource once to say that they did profit from it.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#163

Post by Fjolsvith »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #161
sn9 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By buying meat in a global market, you are creating demand for meat, which affects all markets. The only way the purchase of a good can fail to move global markets is to be wholly disconnected from the market. This means you would have to live in a country that neither imports nor exports meat at all.

Then by your logic, you are contributing to global warming by just breathing carbon dioxide out, and ought to disconnect yourself from the global atmosphere.

But, seriously, assuming you cannot change global meat market demand, what other solutions are there?

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#164

Post by johnisgood »

sn9 wrote: post #156
Fjolsvith wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now my question is, how do we become unconnected? That's easy. The people of the Amazon pass some laws that protect their land. America has this form of protection vs exploitation. Brazil needs to get with the program. Its not an American problem - I eat corn fed beef and pork from Kansas and Nebraska.

By buying meat in a global market, you are creating demand for meat, which affects all markets. The only way the purchase of a good can fail to move global markets is to be wholly disconnected from the market. This means you would have to live in a country that neither imports nor exports meat at all.

> This means you would have to live in a country that neither imports nor exports meat at all.

This does not address the issue which is the high demand for meat. This "solution" seems to be forced diet change. I believe it would create a black market for meat instead.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#165

Post by WalterBright »

CalRobert wrote: post #160
WalterBright wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're making a classic straw man argument. Am I? Because that's what one winds up with if one dispenses with buying all that stuff people were induced to want by industry. Besides, it's a mite presumptuous to claim that people are wasting their lives acquiring things they are induced to want, rather than actually wanting.

My original intent was to suggest that wealthy people consume more (after all, they have the wealth to do so) and ultimately a lot of our current economic system is designed to serve those needs. There's the classic example of "rich nerds in SF trying to solve problems for other rich nerds" but ultimately it's a matter of who controls most of the income that can be spent on non-necessities.

> ultimately a lot of our current economic system is designed to serve those needs.

I simply don't buy that. The market for VWs is far, far larger than the market for Ferraris/Bentleys. McDonald's made orders of magnitude more money than any luxury restaurant chain. The same for shoes, pots, pans, watches, computers, jewelry, soap, etc. The luxury yacht business is microscopic.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#167

Post by kmlx »

pyrale wrote: post #13
kmlx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing that really worries me is humanity going back to pre-modern technology levels, this time with full-on communism added for good measure, all in the name of climate protection. otherwise i find climate change to be something that prepares us for colonising other places: planets and climates change; 300 million years ago Venus was the place to be, today it's Earth, tomorrow it will be the outer planets, s…

"It's up to us to learn from it so we can control it" We do control climate change. What we do not control today is our society and our ability to enact political choices that would change our course.

> We do control climate change.

Let me make this very clear: we do not control climate change.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#168

Post by lostjohnny »

scns wrote: post #106
lostjohnny wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. No, it wouldn't. Look at pandas, they are bears (omnivores, like us), living on a primarily vegetarian diet. They sleep 16 hours a day and when they are awake they eat, because a vegetarian diet is not really energy efficient. If we are talking about a true vegetarian diet, environmental friendly. if we are talking about "…

i would against eating all food raw. The following is a comment i made in another thread: Raw fruit is fine, veggies not really. Many contain substances that should deter animals from eating them. The digestibility of veggies usually increases when they are cooked. wheat contains Phytic acid for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid which can be reduced with the correct dough process. The beta-carotene i…

You're right, I intended raw as in "not processed".

Buy them raw and then cook them yourself.

Of course I cook my meat and my potatoes :)

Post reply on HN