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Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

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Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#161

Post by defterGoose »

wil421 wrote: post #156
mratsim wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European, I'm always surprised when someone says that our governments are efficient. We're always complaining about them.

The grass is always greener on the other side. It’s funny OP mentions Berlin train stations but fails to mention the Berlin Airport.

I always appreciate peoples' willingness to be self-deprecating about their situation, but just because the world is imperfect doesn't mean that that imperfection is evenly distributed. At least here in the US, it seems we have a dearth of both understanding and ability to reason about the degree of that understanding.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#162

Post by pzone »

oblio wrote: post #103
lotsofpulp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't have to worry about liability and cover-your-ass costs, which are huge.

> cover-your-ass costs Everything in a Communist Party in power in any country in the world, at any time, has been about cover-your-ass stuff. At least policies, if not costs.

Those are cover-your-ass with respect to your superiors. In America, the cover-your-ass costs are with respect to the citizens who will use the infrastructure.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#163

Post by capkutay »

tomohawk wrote: post #36

A family member in the DOT told me this as but one of many tales of woe. Several hundred miles of an interstate were going to be rehabbed. There was a proven technique to redo the joints between the concrete slabs, which were in good shape. A contractor was hired to do a small number of miles as a test, but they had a learning curve. The first few joints that they redid were not done well, but they rapidly improved a…

tl;dr lawyers/actors are in charge of projects for which they have no domain expertise. just using their temporary appointment on a 'transportation committee' as a stepping stone to some other job in public office.

the actual planning and execution are either completely neglected over politicized that its almost impossible to build something efficiently. not to mention building such projects in large cities is extremely complicated and requires tons of focus and experience. doing it the way our government structures projects is almost impossible.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#164

Post by Steltek »

athenot wrote: post #98
rafiki6 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same principle applies here as with any software development effort. There are some natural bottlenecks that can't be avoided/parallelized (for e.g. waiting for a layer of asphalt to dry). Further, more people doing a thing doesn't mean it will get done faster. You have to contend with overhead of planning, context-switching and handover overhead between workers leaving/starting shifts etc. etc.

True but those constraints can result in more creative engineering. Look at this timelapse of a bridge getting replaced in 43 hours. They had the new bridge built next to the orignal and "just" moved it into place—I'm using quotes because of course that is an impressive operation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz_j_BEkVCQ

You may want to check out how the Comm Ave bridge over the Pike was replaced in Boston. It was pretty quicke although not as fast 43 hours. However, we also couldn't afford to close the lower road (I-90) as above for an extended staging effort. I believe rail lines were only impacted on two weekend pushes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNiACLQtHyg

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#165

Post by FooHentai »

late2part wrote: post #152
cosmodisk wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years ago,I worked on a residential project. Being a young boy with not much of work experience, I found it quite amusing. One day I got assigned to register all incoming deliveries. So here comes this truck with bricks.The driver gets off the truck,I inspect the bricks and he gives me the paperwork to sign: it says 7 trucks with n pallets of bricks..I look at the driver,at the truck and ask him: so where are the…

Why would you passively participate? This seems like corruption at its core - something worthy of a fight against!

I think that's addressed in the parent

>He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#166

Post by brandmeyer »

Balgair wrote: post #138
tomohawk wrote: post #36

A family member in the DOT told me this as but one of many tales of woe. Several hundred miles of an interstate were going to be rehabbed. There was a proven technique to redo the joints between the concrete slabs, which were in good shape. A contractor was hired to do a small number of miles as a test, but they had a learning curve. The first few joints that they redid were not done well, but they rapidly improved a…

My SO did soil testing for the state for public works projects. Things like water retention rates, expansion, Atterberg tests, etc. It's incredibly basic stuff. Like, how much does the soil expand when it rains/snows? Over a few hundred miles of road bed, even small percentages will add up. In our state there are clays that will expand 4x their volume before water can no longer be absorbed. It turns out, the earth ca…

Apropos: https://www.denverpost.com/2019/07/16/us-36-denver-boulder-c...

We have had an unusually wet year and a chunk of roadway collapsed. Fortunately, it was slow enough that the road was closed well in advance of being a danger to motorists. The blame game is extra-complex since this is a toll road and a public/private partnership. The article goes into good detail.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#167

Post by Steltek »

megabl8 wrote: post #160
rsync wrote: post #121

I am fascinated to see that 3 hours, 109 upvotes and 107 comments into this story, the word "regulation" occurs only once in the comment thread. I own, jointly with others, a 3 mile long road. If there could be only two things that I impressed upon someone, in relation to this road, they would be the following: 1) You have no idea how costly maintaining a road (any road) is. I didn't. I had no idea . Whatever liberta…

> You have no idea how costly maintaining a road (any road) is. And after your comment, I still do not. Telling us might help.

MassDOT recently published their capital budget with a little more fanfare than usual, to soothe Red Line passengers hurting from the recent derailment perhaps. It included $3 billion in major repaving efforts but that seems to have gone without challenge. However the Green Line Extension is barely alive politically on their $2.4B capital budget.

Likewise, a nearby overpass on Rt 128 was repaired for $30M.

Highways eat money but when Massachusetts looks to obvious transit improvements, suddenly cost is a major concern.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#168

Post by whydoineedthis »

tomohawk wrote: post #36

A family member in the DOT told me this as but one of many tales of woe. Several hundred miles of an interstate were going to be rehabbed. There was a proven technique to redo the joints between the concrete slabs, which were in good shape. A contractor was hired to do a small number of miles as a test, but they had a learning curve. The first few joints that they redid were not done well, but they rapidly improved a…

there are only like 40k fatal accidents a year in the US, i seriously doubt 25-30% would be prevented from safer pavement design.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#170

Post by Theodores »

siphon22 wrote: post #134
BubRoss wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a cliched and simplistic explanation to just waive away a large difference with 'culture'.

Sometimes things really are that simple though. Why can you (most of the time) leave your bike outside a store you stop at in Japan but not in America? Because it isn't part of Japanese culture to take what doesn't belong to you, but is normal for a number of Americans. Why can you get relatively wholesome food at a 7-11 in East Asian countries while you get junk and trash at ones in America? Because Japanese people…

Would you steal a bicycle in Japan?

I wouldn't and it has nothing to do with hand-wavy culture.

The reason I would not touch the unlocked bicycle is because I know it is registered with the police. If I got stopped on that bicycle and they looked up the frame number then I would have some explaining to do. Even if I claimed it was mine I could still be prosecuted for not registering 'the change of ownership' with the police. You could imagine the lying, language difficulties and the situation spiralling out of control to end up with time spent in the cells and a few million yen in fines. Could happen.

Note that in America a bicycle is a toy. It has only survived as a vehicle that can be used on the highway by fate, there have been plenty of efforts to fully ban the bicycle from the road and to denigrate it as a toy.

To extrapolate from the bicycle theft situation in Japan to assume that Japanese people are Not Like Us and therefore don't steal is wishful thinking. Personally I believe that Americans are exceptionally unlikely to steal your stuff. I am actually sure that if I did go on a round the world tour that I would find this matter of being honest to be a near universal human trait.

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