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Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

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Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reposting a comment I made in another thread here: But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me e…

As someone who lives in the US, its frustrating to me that many people will read your anecdote and simply think that any public funding of healthcare equals communism, "death panels", delayed care, and abysmal levels of service. My anecdote is that here in the US, if you lose your job and find yourself without insurance, you can literally go bankrupt from a relatively minor injury or sickness due to the extreme cost…

I agree completely, neither extreme is ideal. As I said, I think that given current system it's desirable to fund basic healthcare from taxes, but I think there should be an option to avoid state services if I decide to do so. The major problem in my story isn't insurance itself even though it's expensive as hell, it's that the hospital isn't a business and I'm unable to use my mandatory insurance to cover private healthcare costs. I personally think the Swiss system is good.

I never wanted to imply that private services are always high quality, but there definitely is more motivation and it shows - while there might be a considerable portion of bad hospitals in the US, here are literally just a handful below average ones (compared to the US) in my country and it's impossible to get there legally.

Of course low quality hospital beats no hospital, but you should be able to fix that with some kind of mandatory insurance that is state-sponsored if the person is poor, for example, no? Don't forget that I'm reacting to a comment praising public hospitals from control reasons, not about absence of social safety.

I don't understand why people in the US can't or don't pay their insurance themselves instead of through their employer, though. Seems like a huge risk - well you described it.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, we have thousands of obviously mentally ill people on the street homeless because we can't commit them because of that human autonomy that you mention. It all points to public healthcare where there is governance at a political level and not profit level.

Reposting a comment I made in another thread here: But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me e…

Obviously you haven't been to many US hospitals if you think the care is much better than that here.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reposting a comment I made in another thread here: But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me e…

Obviously you haven't been to many US hospitals if you think the care is much better than that here.

I was always given an opportunity of choice in the US and I never paid that much. I can't really choose a hospital here, the public ones are all the same and the mandatory insurance makes private care unavailable. I was also never met with such bad behavior towards patients, yeah it wasn't perfect, but it was helpful and I was treated as a person, not a piece of shit that is disturbing and isn't worth a look.

I'm in no way praising the US system though. Just saying that public hospitals have been tried and it's really bad. I think the Swiss system is good.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, guardianship or consevatorship (when the person is over 18,) imparts a fiduciary duty on the person/organization to provide for the needs of their ward. So the ability of Mayo to “financially benefit” could be subject to debate. They assume financial responsibility with the assumption of guardianship. In terms of Mayo, they are one of the best hospitals in the world, current situation notwithstanding. It isn…

> xcept Alfie was terminal and had a minimal chance of survival and the U.K. government still refused to allow him to leave the U.K. Permission to take him abroad was denied by the UK courts, not the UK government.

And who was arguing in court to deny him and his parents rights?

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#165
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that due to medical privacy law we can't hear the hospital's side of this. There may be something there and it's not unheard of for the parents to also be weird and controlling. > financially benefits from that control Yeah, this is a more fundamental problem with for-profit hospitals - money gets involved in treatment decisions.

The patient signed a release form, but the hospital still refused to answer the claims. “Alyssa signed the form, but Plumbo declined to answer CNN's questions on the record.” https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/08/13/health/mayo-clinic-escape...

Yep. That is pretty damning in my opinion.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is plain stupid. Not stupid you are just young and ill informed. > While on a phone call with Helen Thomas about the Watergate break-in, King pulled the phone cord from the wall. She was held against her will in a California hotel room and forcefully sedated by a psychiatrist after a physical struggle with five men that left her needing stitches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Mitchell

I'm not saying this does not exist, i'm pretty aware that this is a real problem. I'm just saying that this remark--even if true and on point--doesn't constitute a valid argument against public hospitals since (1) this problem of public hospitals has already a much more widespread cousin in the private sector and (2) it is not intrinsically a problem of the hospital but a governance issue (which is called power abuse…

The US got really leery of committing people to mental hospitals on little hard evidence because the power was being widely abused.

The usual argument is there options in between living on the streets and being imprisoned in a mental hospital. My brother is mildly retarded and lives in a apartment complex where there very minimal supervision. He has a car and a job and can come and go as he pleases. 'Supervision' is there mostly to protect him from 'us' not the other way around.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not name the country?

The Czech Republic, it's even worse in Poland, Hungary and Slovakia (personal experience); I also have even more horror stories about the Czech system - right now I'm waiting for the third month to finally get a bad tooth checked (and I will have to pay around $500 if I don't want the tooth simply extracted, no other option covered by insurance is available). On the other hand I had extremely good experience with che…

Sorry to hear about your experiences. On the other hand, I'm from Australia, and it's absolutely not the case here.

Healthcare could always be better funded, but here it's honestly amazing compared to other places I've seen.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Czech Republic, it's even worse in Poland, Hungary and Slovakia (personal experience); I also have even more horror stories about the Czech system - right now I'm waiting for the third month to finally get a bad tooth checked (and I will have to pay around $500 if I don't want the tooth simply extracted, no other option covered by insurance is available). On the other hand I had extremely good experience with che…

Sorry to hear about your experiences. On the other hand, I'm from Australia, and it's absolutely not the case here. Healthcare could always be better funded, but here it's honestly amazing compared to other places I've seen.

I'm not denying that certain public systems work good or even great - there is Germany just next to my country with their excellent system (it's getting worse according to my German friends though, but I'm not sure about that, I don't have enough first-hand experience). I'm arguing that there is less motivation in a public system so it could easily lead to bad situations, but of course sometimes it doesn't.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in the US, its frustrating to me that many people will read your anecdote and simply think that any public funding of healthcare equals communism, "death panels", delayed care, and abysmal levels of service. My anecdote is that here in the US, if you lose your job and find yourself without insurance, you can literally go bankrupt from a relatively minor injury or sickness due to the extreme cost…

I agree completely, neither extreme is ideal. As I said, I think that given current system it's desirable to fund basic healthcare from taxes, but I think there should be an option to avoid state services if I decide to do so. The major problem in my story isn't insurance itself even though it's expensive as hell, it's that the hospital isn't a business and I'm unable to use my mandatory insurance to cover private he…

Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market.

Your employer can group all of their employees into a single risk pool, so each employee gets a discounted rate. When you purchase insurance on your own you are no longer in a group and so the cost is far more. Doctors are also incentivized to prescribe you drugs you don't need and drugs that insurance covers instead of the correct medication.

My wife had to wait to get surgery on her leg because she just signed up with a new employer and didn't have insurance yet. If she had gotten the surgery without insurance it would have cost somewhere around $100k US.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely, neither extreme is ideal. As I said, I think that given current system it's desirable to fund basic healthcare from taxes, but I think there should be an option to avoid state services if I decide to do so. The major problem in my story isn't insurance itself even though it's expensive as hell, it's that the hospital isn't a business and I'm unable to use my mandatory insurance to cover private he…

Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market. Your employer can group all of their employees into a single risk pool, so each employee gets a discounted rate. When you purchase…

> Because insurance is a private industry and there are few goverment assisted options if you are very poor its very expensive to purchase it by yourself in the US. Private insurance has every incentive to keep raising prices and to keep lobbying the government to stay away from the market.

This is proven to be false by Switzerland, where people purchase their private health insurance themselves.

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