Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 427 posts

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#161

Post by kevinmchugh »

crusso wrote: post #119
conanbatt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being convicted to slavery is justice now?

I don't like the over-use of the word "slavery". Slavery was the capturing of innocent human beings and then forcing them and their progeny to do labor in perpetuity. It was utterly dehumanizing and undeserved treatment. We do a disservice to the meaning of slavery in the USA by calling everything slavery: taxation, prison work, marriage, etc.

You've described chattel slavery, the most prominent form of slavery in USAmerican history, but not the only nor to my knowledge, most prominent form of slavery in world history.

Prison labor so sufficiently meets the definition of slavery that the authors of the 13th Amendment, ending chattel slavery, excluded prison labor as still allowed.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#162

Post by yjgyhj »

cubano wrote: post #122
csmark wrote: post #60

The USA has ~5% of the world's population but 22% of the world's prisoners. Financial profiting from prisoners: Prison Labor - paid $0.93-0.16/hr California Prisons didn't want to release prisoners because they would loose cheap labor..Courts said they had to: https://thinkprogress.org/california-tells-court-it-cant-rel... 30% of California forest firefighters are prisoners .. The state argued against parole credit f…

At the risk of being boorish about the subject... I was recently released from Las Vegas County Jail (CCDC) where all sentenced inmates, myself included, are forced , by state law, to "work" in some manner in the jail. In this case, work consisted of 11-hour shifts, 6 days a week, of ultra back-breaking kitchen work. We were not even allowed to have water cups anywhere outside the break room. They actually yelled fas…

That is indeed totally crazy.

I wish I had some way to verify your story, as I as a reader can't know who sits behind the keyboard on the other side.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#163

Post by yjgyhj »

wallflower wrote: post #115
wonderous wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Legally speaking seems like in the US that prisoners are slaves. SOURCE: https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/13thamendment.htm...

13th is a Netflix documentary about this. Warning: It may be quite difficult to watch. https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

Is there a DRM-free way to watch this?

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#164

Post by maxerickson »

misja111 wrote: post #109
ClassyJacket wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It really doesn't seem very many steps above slavery Zero. It's literally slavery. The thought of it is barbaric and horrible.

Yes the thought of it is horrible, but isn't it part of the purpose of criminal punishments to scare away people from committing crimes?

The loss of freedom is already a pretty big penalty.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#165

Post by kefka »

yjgyhj wrote: post #163
wallflower wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13th is a Netflix documentary about this. Warning: It may be quite difficult to watch. https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

Is there a DRM-free way to watch this?

That appears to work.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/16102495/13th.2016.NF.WEBRi...

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#166

Post by hari_seldon_ »

flexie wrote: post #11

I get it - it's tempting to solve the Harvard Business School issue by sending the MBA students to prison before they wreck havoc on the economy. But I'm not sure their dads would pay the exceeding tuition. Also, there is the whole question of whether it would be fair to the other prisoners. Pretty soon the prison economy would be infested with cigarette derivatives and yard swaps.

Quick aside, many people who go to Harvard Business School receive financial aid or pay for it out of their own pocket -- the school determines need based on your assets and not those of your parents. While there probably are still students who get support from rich dads, it is not the same kind of only-for-the-rich place that you are depicting...

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#167

Post by Broken_Hippo »

kapauldo wrote: post #94
ClassyJacket wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It really doesn't seem very many steps above slavery Zero. It's literally slavery. The thought of it is barbaric and horrible.

Let's not get carried away, they are criminals who committed crimes.

So what?

Ever had a traffic ticket? Stolen something when you were young? Yes? Technically, you are a criminal then. You just didn't get caught or were a minor criminal, according to law.

Besides. Anyone in prison/jail is still human and I truly believe this gives you some rights, including the right not to be used as slave labor. After all, we've already taken away their freedom.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#168

Post by tdb7893 »

chrshawkes wrote: post #137
csmark wrote: post #60

The USA has ~5% of the world's population but 22% of the world's prisoners. Financial profiting from prisoners: Prison Labor - paid $0.93-0.16/hr California Prisons didn't want to release prisoners because they would loose cheap labor..Courts said they had to: https://thinkprogress.org/california-tells-court-it-cant-rel... 30% of California forest firefighters are prisoners .. The state argued against parole credit f…

Well we have laws and plenty of dangerous people who belong in these prisons. Another thing to consider is other countries will execute their prisoners over drug dealing where we put them in prison. There is also the fact that we are the third most populated country and a melting pot combined with plenty of terrible neighborhoods of all ethnicity's.

European countries are often similarly diverse and don't have the same prison population. Also, when you are talking about numbers in percents of population the amount of executions to make a real difference in population would be staggering and border on genocide, which, outside of a few exceptions, isn't the case.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#169

Post by Broken_Hippo »

kombucha2 wrote: post #135
tombrossman wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For future reference, if you or others reading this catch a bullshit charge like you describe, it is very likely that you can have a lawyer handle everything for you and it may be cheaper than the extra travel costs and missed work days. Even if you are supposedly 'required' to appear. I'm not a lawyer so my specific advice is to call a few and explain the situation, then hire one to handle everything for you. Even i…

At the end of my ordeal I had to pay 25 dollars of non-refundable "court costs". There is a Supreme Court to be decided on soon which should determine the constitutionality of this practice even after one has been exonerated.

My ex was found not guilty for driving while suspended (he didn't know at the time). They took about $45 of his bail money to cover it, and this was back in the late 90's.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#170

Post by wu-ikkyu »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #14

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

>It's kind of brilliant in a sadistic way, as if the prisons, their programs, food, and environment were designed to maximize recidivism.

They are. In this Jon Oliver bit they cite a Powerpoint sales pitch from a prison corporation which notes that high recidivism rates are one of many reasons why you should invest.

https://youtu.be/_Pz3syET3DY?t=673

Post reply on HN