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Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

latimes.com

11–20 of 427 posts

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#11
I get it - it's tempting to solve the Harvard Business School issue by sending the MBA students to prison before they wreck havoc on the economy. But I'm not sure their dads would pay the exceeding tuition.

Also, there is the whole question of whether it would be fair to the other prisoners. Pretty soon the prison economy would be infested with cigarette derivatives and yard swaps.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#12
post #8

Bizarre comparison! Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. Universities have a wholly different set of requirements.

I agree. Maybe they should try comparing the cost with 24 hour psychological health treatment.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#13
post #2

Love when the problem as stated contains its own solution.

I think it helps show the cost of crime and look at different solutions but I don't see how it contains the solution. I had a car stolen by some guys once. They used my car to drive around breaking in to other cars and stealing things. The police caught them and took me to me car so that I could get it back. I also had to go through all the stuff in the back and tell the police what wasn't mine. It turns out they had…

I would be legit interested in some data on mandatory trade school v. traditional prison. You're anecdote doesn't look good but lets at least give the idea a fair shake.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#14
Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves.

Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of realizing that she may have left it at the bar. The best part was when I had to fly back out for a court date, they told me they were dropping the charge for an obvious lack of evidence. This decision was made on the actual court date, so I got to waste even more money on airfare and travel ). I was surprised at the entrepreneurial zeal of those who have no issue profiting from misery and suffering. In the LA area at least, many former/older celebrities are investors or owners of prison supply companies. Most notable was Bob Barker's company which sold travel-sized generic toothpaste for $7. In this case, the price is wrong, Bob.

The fingerprinting machine was the size of a ultra-deluxe 70's Xerox machine, regularly needed service, and looked like it had a sticker price around 5 figures (a feature that is just an add-on to $500 phones.) I think that 10x-20x inflation is pretty consistent across the board in the American penal system. The collect calling system is also beyond ridiculous given the near zero cost of landline telecommunications and that most cell phones can't receive collect calls. The food you're eating is the absolute worst (in terms of taste of course) nutritionally. Nearly everything is processed and is done so in the cheapest way possible. When I say as cheap as possible, I mean that the $.49 Nissin Ramen is an actual delicacy (No exaggeration. Some of the inmates would pool their resources together and "cook" the ramen in a giant plastic bag with hot water that surely must be leeching pcb's and/or phthalates from the container.) After a few months of that diet, even the most physically fit people developed a weird type of gut and loss of musculature. I didn't eat anything while there, but I observed that the only nutritional guideline that could possibly be met that of 2K+ calories/day. I know it's not Club Med, but that type of diet is a blocker for any type of rehabilitation. It was depressing to look at and had the effect of making one more docile and depressed.

So while California may spend $75K per prisoner, the value they spend is probably closer to $7K. It's kind of brilliant in a sadistic way, as if the prisons, their programs, food, and environment were designed to maximize recidivism.

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if some elements were designed in this way

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#15
post #2

Love when the problem as stated contains its own solution.

I think it helps show the cost of crime and look at different solutions but I don't see how it contains the solution. I had a car stolen by some guys once. They used my car to drive around breaking in to other cars and stealing things. The police caught them and took me to me car so that I could get it back. I also had to go through all the stuff in the back and tell the police what wasn't mine. It turns out they had…

It's a numbers game really. At present the numbers show that prison makes people worse. I'll add my own anecdata and say that I've seen people come out of prison much worse than they went in.

And, if, for $75,000 per person per annum we can't work towards better outcomes, then I think we can agree something is very wrong with the current approach.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#16
post #9

Does this include housing, food, healthcare, etc. for Harvard figure? Looks like not, so the comparison is kinda meaningless. Also: The price for each inmate has doubled since 2005, even as court orders related to overcrowding have reduced the population by about one-quarter. Salaries and benefits for prison guards and medical providers drove much of the increase. I looked for the word "union" in the article and it's…

[deleted]

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#17
post #11

I get it - it's tempting to solve the Harvard Business School issue by sending the MBA students to prison before they wreck havoc on the economy. But I'm not sure their dads would pay the exceeding tuition. Also, there is the whole question of whether it would be fair to the other prisoners. Pretty soon the prison economy would be infested with cigarette derivatives and yard swaps.

I'd like to see what would happen in prison if these Harvard types destabilised the market...

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#18
post #8

Bizarre comparison! Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. Universities have a wholly different set of requirements.

One could say "high risk, high need" also applies to: -People otherwise neglected by society, like minorities. -The impoverished -Children/young adults

Maybe if society actually prepared its people for...itself (society) we'd have fewer problems?

I'm willing to bet $1 of room, board, and education alleviate $100 (or more) of incarceration.

Current US budget for prisons: 74 billion Current US budget for education: 68 billion

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#19
post #9

Does this include housing, food, healthcare, etc. for Harvard figure? Looks like not, so the comparison is kinda meaningless. Also: The price for each inmate has doubled since 2005, even as court orders related to overcrowding have reduced the population by about one-quarter. Salaries and benefits for prison guards and medical providers drove much of the increase. I looked for the word "union" in the article and it's…

So you looked for evidence to support your a priori beliefs, didn't find it and still made insinuations. Good on you.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#20

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

Correction: contractors are fleecing tax payers.
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