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How we're scammed into eating phony food

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Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#161

Post by ricksplat »

zzen wrote: post #63
foota wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me, why would the quality of food there decrease?

Because currently the USDA and FDA equivalents in EU actually work, and the laws that require food inspections are stricter. The worry is that TTIP market access policies will force uniform, lowest-common-denominator rules, eliminating european food QA policies.

Here is a really good example of food differences between USA and Europe. Something as simple as eggs: http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120...

TLDR: European regulations force more stringent regulations on producers of eggs; therefore eggs are cleaner and you can store them for weeks without refrigeration.

IMHO they've also got a much nicer colour.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#162

Post by vkou »

emp_zealoth wrote: post #110
hueving wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you cook something on your stove, it becomes "processed food". If you have an aversion towards anything you hear is 'processed food', you are basically a chump.

The problem is industrial food is usually made with industrial grade additives: Monosodium glutamate, modified palm oil, various stabilisers, buckets of sugar, etc - I would list more, but I literally threw away the worst offender I had on hand (Pre-made meal-in-a-jar)

How is MSG an industrial grade additive? There's a lot of it in tomatoes.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#163

Post by pyrale »

derefr wrote: post #54
dagw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Darjeeling is a region in India. So darjeeling tea is like champagne in that if it isn't from that region it isn't actually Darjeeling.

But is tea distinguished by its terroir (like wine), or is it just a matter of cultivars (like bananas)? I.e. is Sri Lankan "Darjeeling" blind-taste-test-equivalent to Darjeeling from Darjeeling? I can support a concept of "growing regions" for foods where the growing region matters ; but otherwise, it's just bald monopolism.

It's brand, simply. If you produce Coca Cola in a pepsi factory, does it matter ?

The fact is, for many of these products, formal brand recognition did not exist back when the production tradition started. Therefore, when you buy Gouda, or Roquefort, or Bordeaux wine, you buy with the understanding that you're buying the real deal, but there's no brand per se. With the development of mass consumption and international trade, Europe has started protecting these products with protected origin recognition.

On the other hand, the US has much more brand protection on their strong exports, because they emerged much later. And consequently, they have laws very protective of brands, but don't recognize Europe's protected goods. You see it as natural because you were raised in that culture, but for many european people, US food practices would be considered similar to accepting fake iphones, mcD's or Coca-Cola.

Within the framework of international trade agreements, this becomes a source of problems, ofc ; because accepting one side's or the other's definition would mean culling the opposite industry.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#164

Post by thatfrenchguy »

mac01021 wrote: post #121
Dutchie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not just protectionism. If I buy Bleu d'Auvergne (it's a French cheese) in the Netherlands, I want to be sure I get the real deal, as a consumer.

But what if someone outside France is able to produce equivalent cheese using the same formula? Why do you care where it's from?

The thing is, that's impossible. If you try to make Comté in the US, it would not taste the same and thus would be a scam.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#165

Post by toomanybeersies »

derefr wrote: post #54
dagw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Darjeeling is a region in India. So darjeeling tea is like champagne in that if it isn't from that region it isn't actually Darjeeling.

But is tea distinguished by its terroir (like wine), or is it just a matter of cultivars (like bananas)? I.e. is Sri Lankan "Darjeeling" blind-taste-test-equivalent to Darjeeling from Darjeeling? I can support a concept of "growing regions" for foods where the growing region matters ; but otherwise, it's just bald monopolism.

I'd say, with no evidence to back me up whatsoever, that yes, tea is distinguished by its terroir.

Basically any agricultural product, especially more delicate products, have a terroir. Hops are a very good example. NZ cascade is completely different from American cascade, despite being literally the same cultivar.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#166

Post by koliber »

derefr wrote: post #54
dagw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Darjeeling is a region in India. So darjeeling tea is like champagne in that if it isn't from that region it isn't actually Darjeeling.

But is tea distinguished by its terroir (like wine), or is it just a matter of cultivars (like bananas)? I.e. is Sri Lankan "Darjeeling" blind-taste-test-equivalent to Darjeeling from Darjeeling? I can support a concept of "growing regions" for foods where the growing region matters ; but otherwise, it's just bald monopolism.

I don't know how much tea flavor is from terroir. With wine, studies have debunked that concept, much to the chagrin of the French. However, naming food and drink after the region from which it originates is not monopolism, but proper labeling.

Calling sparkling wine from California Champagne is false advertising, as is calling tea from Sri Lanka Darjeeling. The name is describes where the product came from. No one is saying you can not make an identical product elsewhere, but don't claim it comes from the place it does not come from.

What if people in Romania started producing "California Zinfandel", the Chinese were selling "Texas Black Angus", or a poplar brand of "Milwaukee Cheddar" was made in southern Mexico. I think it would be at best plain weird, and at worst grossly misleading.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#167

Post by collyw »

adrr wrote: post #128
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the EU there are laws that say that if something is labeled as virgin olive oil, it has to be olive oil and nothing else. Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. Lobster meat has to be lobster meat, and Kobe beef absolutely has to be Kobe beef. TTIP basically(in extreme simplification) says that if something is allowed in US it should be allowed in any other signatory country - which would…

EU laws aren't being enforced. All the fake olive oil is coming out of Italy. If you want real virgin olive oil in the US, you have to buy the California ones. It was also reported that Kobe beef was being sold at European restaurants even when Europe had a ban on Japanese meats during the Mad Cow Scare. Those are things just off the top of my head, i bet if you actually dug in, Europe has many examples of where fake…

Did Japan have incidences of Mad Cow disease? I thought it was a British thing.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#168

Post by johnsea »

adrr wrote: post #128
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the EU there are laws that say that if something is labeled as virgin olive oil, it has to be olive oil and nothing else. Greek Yoghurt has to be made in Greece and nowhere else. Lobster meat has to be lobster meat, and Kobe beef absolutely has to be Kobe beef. TTIP basically(in extreme simplification) says that if something is allowed in US it should be allowed in any other signatory country - which would…

EU laws aren't being enforced. All the fake olive oil is coming out of Italy. If you want real virgin olive oil in the US, you have to buy the California ones. It was also reported that Kobe beef was being sold at European restaurants even when Europe had a ban on Japanese meats during the Mad Cow Scare. Those are things just off the top of my head, i bet if you actually dug in, Europe has many examples of where fake…

> EU laws aren't being enforced.

Sorry, to be blunt, but this is bullshit. There are scams (olive extra-virgin was a big problem), but in general the rules do work and problems are being addressed, e.g. in Italy every olive tree is now digitalized [1].

If you want 'extra protection/certainty' then please buy labeled 'bio-food' with strict condition. Sure also there, you might find cheaters, but it is rare.

[1] (sorry, german) http://www.nzz.ch/nzzas/nzz-am-sonntag/ein-schmieriges-gesch...

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#169

Post by collyw »

enricosada wrote: post #148
mac01021 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if someone outside France is able to produce equivalent cheese using the same formula? Why do you care where it's from?

Food is not like building a car in a factory. It's not a formula like chemistry. The milk matter, cereal matter, where cow live matter. The whole supply chain. it's really difficult/impossibile to replicate that. You can have something similar, but call it with the generic name. In Italy you can get really good food everywhere. But i can assure you, you can feel the difference between location. For that we get DOC, D…

It can get even more subtle than that. Speaking with a restaurant owner in a tiny village on the Pyrenees, I told him he would make a killing if he opened in a restaurant in Barcelona.

"It wouldn't work. The animals would have to be transported. They would sweat and that affects the taste".

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#170

Post by matthewmacleod »

realusername wrote: post #160
jokoon wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated, but I was just debating GMO labels on "change my view" on reddit. I admit I was trolling that if GMO are healthy, then ultimately there is no harm in a neutral label. My comments got downvoted very hard. It boiled down that those labels would essentially be a form of misinformation, or that the uneducated public would make uninformed decisions. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but the post got 400 comme…

It's exactly like democracy, no one wants democracy when it goes against what they personally want.

That's a bit of a lazy analogy. Loads of people want democracy, even when it doesn't achieve their goals.
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