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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#161

Post by cylinder »

frobozz wrote: post #110
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Always take it to your union rep first. Your union is your advocate, and is there to help you. They can advise you on the most appropriate next step for your particular workplace. They can take it to HR, anonymously (depending on context), for you. They can ask their members if anyone else has similar issues, in order to add weight to your complaint and ensure that HR take corrective action to fix the source of the p…

Are you American? White collar unions are basically non-existent in the US private sector.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#162

Post by MCRed »

austenallred wrote: post #130
mfringel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....and thus it all cancels out? Show your work.

It's just all so anecdotal. Finding five frustrated employees of a company with things would not be hard to do, and the response pointed out how many of the major complaints were severely taken out of context. It just reeks if someone trying to make a story when there is none.

Basically, everyone not currently at amazon is admitting how much it sucks. People currently there are pretending it doesn't suck. The company does have a good reality distortion field and seems like a great place to work for the first 6 months.

Then you find out they were lying to you.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#163

Post by jazzyk »

dpark wrote: post #133
anotherangrydev wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich, you know what dignity is? Dignity is being the same person disregarding the situation where you're currently involved. I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct, with a perfect vocabulary and behavior for even the most adverse situations in life. I really, really hope your life crosses path with a woman like that one and you end up in a situation like mine. I would like to see you han…

> Politely but firmly told her ... Fuck off Your story makes you sound abrasive and unpleasant. If the story played out the way you tell it, she obviously was a bad actor and did something terrible. (And yes, there are definitely some people who will play control games with any little bit of power they gain.) It's difficult to sympathize with you, though, when even your telling of the story makes you sound difficult…

You missed one word - "politely". One can be polite and still convey the intended message :-) She obviously got it, hence the revenge.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#164

Post by stoshe »

curun1r wrote: post #141
stoshe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's purely anecdotal, but it's been a well known "fact" within my circle of developers that working for Amazon is a death march and not something you should consider unless you are desperate or intend to make it a short stint where they are offering a title and pay increase worth the 1-2 years of hell that working there would be. True or not, perception is reality and Amazon has attained a rather poor reputation in…

The perception I've gotten is somewhat different, though based on much of the same stories. I don't think Amazon is a horrible place to work, but it seems like a horrible place to stay for too long. I had a roommate who was a nurse who and worked in a couple of area hospitals. When I asked her why she drove 90 minutes to one hospital rather than working all her hours at closer area hospitals, her response was, "That…

I think we're saying the same thing, but with different slants. The perception of Amazon right now (again, I don't know first hand) is that the work there is extremely intense to the point of maddening, and that can make it very attractive for certain people, and very unattractive for others. If you want to gain good experiences quickly and build your resume with a big name, it's a very viable option for you so long as you are willing to make the trade-off in work/life balance and stress. If you're no longer at that point in your career, it's not going to be for you.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#166

Post by cylinder »

austenallred wrote: post #130
mfringel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....and thus it all cancels out? Show your work.

It's just all so anecdotal. Finding five frustrated employees of a company with things would not be hard to do, and the response pointed out how many of the major complaints were severely taken out of context. It just reeks if someone trying to make a story when there is none.

This is how most "journalism" works these days. Write your report as if the sky is falling, something extremely negative and spin it as if it's a major global trend. Then read the article and it's just some quotes from maybe three people, with very little data to back up the claim that it's a major trend. I see this type of work constantly. Especially articles about America or about "shortages." People get hyped up by a negative headline but don't think critically about the content.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#167

Post by rdtsc »

balls187 wrote: post #149
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

This whole notion of "HR isn't your friend" is nonsensical. No department at the company is your friend. You stop performing at your job, you will probably be fired--or promoted. Even your real friends won't be your friends for very long if their own self-interests are always in contention against your own. HR is fulfills a specific sets of roles for the company and they exist to look out for the best interest of the…

> No department at the company is your friend.

Of course not, except not many disguise themselves as your friend, that was the point.

Nobody thinks the finance department is there to make your life easy as a developer or to somehow take your side vis-a-vis an argument with the higher-ups.

But somehow the image of "HR" working for the employees and advocating for them persists.

Just read Jeff's email as an example. "Take it up with HR". In other words, don't worry, we'll fix it for ya.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#168

Post by jazzyk »

asgard1024 wrote: post #142
NoGravitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe workers could come together to build such a structure...somewhere they could come together to negotiate their conditions of employment...

What a revolutionary idea! Seriously though, I wonder why humans tolerate the hierarchical structures so much. I am proponent of direct democracy and worker cooperatives but curiously enough, to many people the idea seems wrong.

Flat structures work great for smaller organizations, but don't scale up with size.

That said, a bigger organization could still be structured like a federation of relatively independent businesses/departments, with clearly defined interactions (interfaces) between them, rather than a monolith.

Modular design benefits business as much as it does software architecture.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#169

Post by rblatz »

joesmo wrote: post #76
degradas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…

Going to HR is indeed the end. I had one boss suggest that some incredibly minor conflict be solved by HR. Immediately, I knew it was time to change jobs. A few weeks later, when I handed in my resignation, my boss was surprised and tried to get me to stay. I offered them about a 15% increase in pay, but left as they weren't interested. I still don't understand why he'd be surprised. I suppose some people, even after…

It sounds like your complaint was solved and then you decided to bail. That isn't exactly a damning critique of HR.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#170

Post by eonw »

binxbolling wrote: post #106
balls187 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other things as well that are pretty important: Recruiting, performance reviews, and visa sponsorships. I personally would hate to setup interview loops, having to manage calendars and book rooms, and the amount of paperwork required to hire a candidate that is not a US Resident, boy that would suck too.

...and training, succession planning, workforce planning, onboarding, offboarding, retention and attrition, re-locations, HRIS management, coaching, etc. Not sure most people really understand what HR does, just as HR arguably doesn't understand what a developer does.

at my employer, many of these are done by our team and we tell HR what we want.
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