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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#41

Post by inversionOf »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #26
seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

>Most of them could easily find another job someplace else Not too long ago we laughed at open offices and tiny cubes with half or quarter height walls as just desserts for low wage workers like call center operators. After all, if they wanted better conditions they should make themselves more marketable. Now coders are having to deal with these punishing layouts due to them being a current executive fad. Now every e…

Terrible working conditions have been the norm for many coders for as long as there has been coding. In the late 90s, Joel Spolsky rose by being a contrarian and advocating good work conditions. Microsoft was always held as an extreme outlier with its good conditions. Everyone was agape about the .com bubble because companies were giving employees nice chairs (which in retrospect seems absurd...something so minor as a signal of excess).

The point, I suppose, is that our own information funnels often mislead us into trends and "averages", when it's just cycles.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#42

Post by vonmoltke »

Yhippa wrote: post #28
degradas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…

If this is true then that's real bad for Bezos to come out and say that. It's almost as if he's doubling-down on Amazon's evilness.

It's basically the standard corporatespeak reaction to this kind of negative publicity.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#43

Post by mfringel »

austenallred wrote: post #13

"BREAKING: Hugely successful big co has ex employees not fully satisfied, willing to criticize it. It also has current employees who appreciate it, willing to defend it. Will keep you posted."

....and thus it all cancels out? Show your work.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#44

Post by XorNot »

zamalek wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

I'm not advocating or rejecting the Amazon boycott, simply here to challenge the way you think: while everything you said is logical you can't simply treat people like trash, it doesn't matter if they are white collar, gold collar or can't-afford-a-collar. A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." That is laying blame on the person who was ab…

Even if you haven't acquired a lifestyle. It's not like things get better when management adopts some new terrible practice for non-salaried employees. By and large they live day to day stack-ranking all sorts of far more abusive BS.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#45

Post by masklinn »

otterley wrote: post #24

I'm actually pleased with Mr. Bezos' response. He doesn't deny any of the stories in the article, and he doesn't try to explain any of them away. His attitude strikes me as one of a problem-solver and one who cares about his company's reputation. I can't recall the last time I heard the CEO of a large company say publicly, "if you've been treated this way, reach out to me personally."

Sending people to HR in the US is not a way to solve a problem, unless you define "the problem" as "employees complaining to HR".

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#46

Post by pinaceae »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

seems like people in the US mistake the Human Resources department with Workers Councils.

in Europe, you go to the Council, never to HR. the Council is job protected, guaranteed pay - hence no way to apply pressure from the company.

HR is not a bad department, they are very important, but they serve the CEO, their role is to keep the whole thing going, avoid waves of any kind and keep a good hiring pipeline.

surprised no union is trying this to break into amazon.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#48

Post by revscat »

mratzloff wrote: post #25
sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

As long as you're not under contract, you might as well find out for yourself if you like it or not.

It's getting to the point where having Amazon on your resume is a negative, though.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#49

Post by beauzero »

I think the point is being missed. As long as Amazon has "interesting" problems to solve they will get good people (look at what PhD candidates will suffer). If they don't then only those who can't leave will be left behind. I know this is cynical but it is also why I love this field so much. I look for interesting problems to solve...not huge benefits. Money just doesn't get me up in the morning. Will I die poor...maybe...its not a big concern because I love what I do.

Keeping it "interesting" is the problem that needs to be solved at Amazon. So far they have been very successful at that.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#50

Post by xornor »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Never trust HR in big companies. They are there to do human resource management easy for directors. Their task is to do everything for the company.
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