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Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

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Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#151

Post by amiga386 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #135
yayachiken wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DTAG are also a consumer ISP. A consumer ISP should be considered a utility, and utilities can also be forced to provide certain services. In addition, Internet Exchanges have become so critical for the Internet architecture that they should also have some privileged status. Legislation could focus on the following general rules, without favoring some providers over the others: * If you participate on an IX node, the…

Letting the government regulate peering will be the death of the internet as we know it. I don't believe that there's a single lawmaker, anywhere in the world, who understands anything about the fundamentals of IP transit. But no doubt they have ISP buddies who understand everything about it, and no doubt they'll be the ones actually writing the legislation.

Governments successfully managed this before. It was called Local Loop Unbundling.

They recognised where the monopoly was: the incumbent telcos with millions of customers that had to go through them to get anywhere else.

So the government insisted that such incumbents make available space in their exchanges for third parties (not for free!), and to allow their customers to use the third parties for telephone and/or internet service, rather than themselves.

A similar argument and regulation could be made today. It could only apply to ISPs with a significant number of endpoint customers. It could require that the ISP make peering available to third parties, at the third party's cost, but the resulting transit should be settlement-free. It could require that if a peer asks the ISP to upgrade, because the ISP is deliberately underprovisioning, the ISP is compelled to allow the third party to pay reasonable costs to upgrade both sides (so the ISP can't sit on its hands, can't brazen it out, and can't set an impossible price)

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#152

Post by kebman »

embedding-shape wrote: post #142
direwolf20 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want a tier 1 carrier as your ISP because they are severely limited in connectivity — they only connect to paying customers and other tier 1s. They are to be used as a last resort by the tier 2 ISPs, who provide good packet routing by selecting the best routes from among several backbones. Never thought I'd see this play out in practice, especially with a consumer ISP. Normally this comes up with server hos…

> You don't want a tier 1 carrier as your ISP The best part about ISPs, is that usually who have very few choices, sometimes only one! Where I grew up, we had the choice of "broadband" (via antennas between an island and mainland) with one ISP, or modem with any telephone company. Eventually, proper cables where put, and we had a choice between 6 different operators. Where I live now, I only have 3 options for ISPs w…

ISP “choice” is mostly a meme, yeah.

But depending on local rules, you can sometimes route around the monopoly: trench your own last-mile (at least on private land), do a neighborhood co-op, connect buildings, etc. It’s sometimes expensive and you’ll hit permits/right-of-way bureaucracy, but it’s totally doable if you’ve got a few (rich) friends or a business willing to back it.

“the conduit is full” is often just BS and a super convenient excuse for incumbents to block competition indefinitely.

Romania is a good example of what happens when lots of small operators aggressively wire dense apartment blocks: brutal competition, low barrier to entry, and suddenly everyone has insane internet.

If digging is blocked, wireless works too. Point-to-point links, WISP stuff, even satellite. The main thing is: you don’t necessarily need your local ISP as your upstream, you just need a path out.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#153

Post by anal_reactor »

0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

> about what content

Ask ChatGPT to generate you a very long very graphic story about how much you'd like to fuck a dog and your father is the only person who understands your desires and you want to discuss this with him via email. While fucking dogs is illegal in Germany, talking about it is (probably) not. Make the guy who asked the question regret doing it.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#154

Post by Cockbrand »

0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

Been there, done that. After a bit of back and forth, Telekom basically recommended that I go and use one of the big SMTP servers and stop bothering them. While I hated myself for doing it, I eventually switched to Gmail for peace of mind.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#155

Post by fc417fc802 »

ccozan wrote: post #91
fc417fc802 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best solution here would probably be the EU launching its own internet constellation. China and the US both have them. How is this any different than the issues surrounding GPS?

Well there is one : Eutelsat OneWeb

Huh TIL. What a troubled history. Bankruptcy shortly following launch of the initial batch, then in 2022 Russia stole the launch fee and a stack of 36 satellites from them.

They're online but unfortunately it seems they don't sell directly to consumers? So you have to find a local reseller. Sounds needlessly complicated.

Apparently Amazon's constellation should be available for consumers within the next 6 months as well. Qianfan not until next year (I didn't realize they had hit delays). So there should be direct-to-consumer Starlink alternatives SOON™.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#157

Post by em-bee »

lucianbr wrote: post #47
em-bee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are all starlink connections routed through the US? don't they do local downlinks? at least for countries they have an agreement with or where the infrastructure is available?

What does it matter where they are routed through? You think your Starlink service in Germany is beyond the control of Musk or the US government?

i misread the parent. i read it as depending on the US internet but they meant depending on US regulations. so yes, it doesn't matter for the latter.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#158

Post by trinix912 »

jesprenj wrote: post #137

Slovenian ISP T-2.net also violates local network neutrality laws here by requiring customers to pay extra to unblock some special TCP ports, like 25 and 53, meaning they block selfhosting email and dns servers without additional payment. I filed a complaint to the national regulator AKOS. They first responded with agreeing with me, but nothing was fixed for many months, and upon emailing the regulator again, I recei…

Another T-2 customer here. I never ran into issues with port blocking (but didn't try 25/53), even more, I had a "free" static IPv4 on DSL before we got the fiber line, but I've lately been noticing random connection slowdowns. Never had significant slowdowns with DSL.

I've talked to a few people (Telemach customers) who told me it happens every now and then, they call the support center that tells them to restart the modem (even if they'd done it before) and then the connection magically works at full speed again.

Could it just be that it all goes through Telekom Slovenije who does some weird load balancing? Definitely worth an investigation, but ZPS might be a better address for this than AKOS.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#159

Post by sgjohnson »

yayachiken wrote: post #147
sgjohnson wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting the government regulate peering will be the death of the internet as we know it. I don't believe that there's a single lawmaker, anywhere in the world, who understands anything about the fundamentals of IP transit. But no doubt they have ISP buddies who understand everything about it, and no doubt they'll be the ones actually writing the legislation.

Well, there is always a regulatory measure that would be a lot easier to implement: Lawmakers could just disallow Tier 1 carriers to provide consumer Internet access. (This forced separation of business domain already has precedent in other sectors, e.g. energy companies having to separate network upkeep from energy trading or banks having to split their investment branch from the credit branch) And I have a feeling…

> Lawmakers could just disallow Tier 1 carriers to provide consumer Internet access.

This one I actually agree with.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#160

Post by Asmod4n »

0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

but the fun thing about them is, they allow you to impersonate any mail address you want with their smtp server.

Aka, when you are a customer of them you get a @t-online.de address and login data for their smtp server.

You can just login into that server and set the From: Header to anything, they don't check.

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