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A Post-Google World?

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Re: A Post-Google World?

#151

Post by soared »

datahack wrote: post #140
soared wrote: post #6

Generally an excellent and accurate write up, nervous/excited to see where this goes. A bit over the top with some of the things google has done in the programmatic space, but aligns with reality. I disagree with the display/programmatic space innovations being held back by google - there are an insane amount of small players who are doing different things and it’s easy to integrate them into the existing space. IE i…

The issue is not whether startup alternatives exist, it is more in my mind that no mid-market companies exist because they are taken out at the knees before they threaten the incumbents through acquisitions. It eventually becomes impossible to avoid doing business with them.

I guess it’s hard to know if there should be significantly more mid market companies or not - I work in the space and am aware of hundreds of them, but perhaps with the size of adtech that number should really be thousands

Re: A Post-Google World?

#152

Post by 627467 »

whatever1 wrote: post #145
soared wrote: post #6

Generally an excellent and accurate write up, nervous/excited to see where this goes. A bit over the top with some of the things google has done in the programmatic space, but aligns with reality. I disagree with the display/programmatic space innovations being held back by google - there are an insane amount of small players who are doing different things and it’s easy to integrate them into the existing space. IE i…

In general I do not understand how auctioning for a thing with fixed cost aligns with the principles of free market. Google owns the infrastructure of search, maintaining them and showing ads has a finite cost. How does piting ad buyers in an auction is different than price gauging? Imagine apple every year introducing the new iPhone without a price and when you go to the cart it asks for your credit limits before it…

Why is it wrong for apple to charge differently.fpr different people? This already happens I'm different geographic regions. Apple devices are not essential goods. Why not charge people who get more value out of a product more?

Re: A Post-Google World?

#153

Post by animal_spirits »

ethbr1 wrote: post #106
animal_spirits wrote: post #101

> video sharing, mapping, mobile phones, and the other Google infrastructure. These are all areas ripe for innovation and disruption, This is incredibly wrong. We've had mountains of innovation in all of these areas under Google's leadership and from competitors like Apple, Mapbox, Microsoft, AWS, etc. When Google ends up costing more to use, competitors will _not_ need to innovate to attract customers to their platf…

What innovation has happened in Maps in the last 19 years? Aside from buying Waze in 2013?

Not just innovation with Google's Maps product, but innovations among all competing map products. For one, wildfire maps and air quality maps have been important for me living in the PNW. Trail maps, terrain. Mapbox has innovated a lot, creating a whole developer platform focused on map creation, direction APIs. Apple Maps has been improving a lot too. OSM is incredibly well built out, and all the related technologies built on top of OSM. Weather maps from DarkSky now Apple Weather. There's so much

Re: A Post-Google World?

#154

Post by animal_spirits »

isodev wrote: post #132
animal_spirits wrote: post #101

> video sharing, mapping, mobile phones, and the other Google infrastructure. These are all areas ripe for innovation and disruption, This is incredibly wrong. We've had mountains of innovation in all of these areas under Google's leadership and from competitors like Apple, Mapbox, Microsoft, AWS, etc. When Google ends up costing more to use, competitors will _not_ need to innovate to attract customers to their platf…

Apple is not really a competitor though, is it? The post was focused on search but let's not forget Apple is experiencing their own version of sinking deeper into anti-trust lawsuits following years of market abuse.

Apple competes with Google's loss-leader products, which will be impacted by these anti-trust lawsuits

Re: A Post-Google World?

#155

Post by animal_spirits »

39896880 wrote: post #146
animal_spirits wrote: post #100

In the end we will all lose, in my opinion. Google will start to charge more for access to YouTube, along with increasing ads. They will begin to pay creators less due to the increased cost in serving the ads. We will see a decline in the quality and quantity of high production video education.

Google will charge more for access to YouTube, which makes competitors like Nebula more appealing.

The problem here is Nebula doesn't have to do any more innovation to attract customers. There are two ways to compete; sell the same product for a better price, or sell a better product for the same price. You can sell the same product for a better price by innovating on technology/business, but when we artificially increase the cost of Google's product, it makes competitors artificially cheaper. The competitors don't need to actually do anything better than Google and they win out at the expense of the consumer.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#156

Post by mystified5016 »

whatever1 wrote: post #145
soared wrote: post #6

Generally an excellent and accurate write up, nervous/excited to see where this goes. A bit over the top with some of the things google has done in the programmatic space, but aligns with reality. I disagree with the display/programmatic space innovations being held back by google - there are an insane amount of small players who are doing different things and it’s easy to integrate them into the existing space. IE i…

In general I do not understand how auctioning for a thing with fixed cost aligns with the principles of free market. Google owns the infrastructure of search, maintaining them and showing ads has a finite cost. How does piting ad buyers in an auction is different than price gauging? Imagine apple every year introducing the new iPhone without a price and when you go to the cart it asks for your credit limits before it…

> In general I do not understand how auctioning for a thing with fixed cost aligns with the principles of free market.

Simple: the 'free market' exists to maximize the price for a given good or service with respect to the demand for such. That's really the whole story here.

> Imagine apple every year introducing the new iPhone without a price and when you go to the cart it asks for your credit limits before it creates a unique price that magically matches exactly your credit limits.

This is how sevreral 'free' markets work already. Anything involving credit or finance, real estate.

It is a grave mistake to assume that the actions of a free market have anything whatsoever to do with what is morally right, or even what is legal.

The market makes line go up and that is the only thing it cares about. Capitalism does not give one good goddamn about who or what it may hurt, it can only ever consider the bottom line.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#157

Post by makeitdouble »

whatever1 wrote: post #145
soared wrote: post #6

Generally an excellent and accurate write up, nervous/excited to see where this goes. A bit over the top with some of the things google has done in the programmatic space, but aligns with reality. I disagree with the display/programmatic space innovations being held back by google - there are an insane amount of small players who are doing different things and it’s easy to integrate them into the existing space. IE i…

In general I do not understand how auctioning for a thing with fixed cost aligns with the principles of free market. Google owns the infrastructure of search, maintaining them and showing ads has a finite cost. How does piting ad buyers in an auction is different than price gauging? Imagine apple every year introducing the new iPhone without a price and when you go to the cart it asks for your credit limits before it…

Reading between the lines, what you're pointing out beyond the ideas of "free market" and "price gauging" (I don't see any difference between the two TBH) is exactly that Google has monopolistic power in the space.

They can set arbitrary prices and have customers pay anyway, with little fear of competition or market loss.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#158

Post by makeitdouble »

winddude wrote: post #109

> However, it does mean that Google will have to give up on its mission, “to organize the world's information.” Though that slogan looks benign, it is in fact anything but. Being the organizer of the world’s information is far far too much power for anyone to have. It’s time to give up on it. Giving up on that is stupid, and would set society back. We need more companies and organisations doing it. AI has brought a f…

> We need more companies and organisations doing it.

The current issue IMHO is having a single for-profit company doing it at such scale. They're inherently motivated to keep competition away and keep themselves relevant.

Companies shouldn't own the core data (yes, even when they farmed it themselves running cars through millions of km of streets), perhaps we could come up with a fixed price they have to abide to to sell their data to any eligible entity, with governing bodies being a potential reseller of it.

Meteorology wouldn't be what it is today if some single US company owned and organized the world's info. We need a similar model for the rest of it.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#159

Post by ein0p »

metadat wrote: post #113
winddude wrote: post #109

> However, it does mean that Google will have to give up on its mission, “to organize the world's information.” Though that slogan looks benign, it is in fact anything but. Being the organizer of the world’s information is far far too much power for anyone to have. It’s time to give up on it. Giving up on that is stupid, and would set society back. We need more companies and organisations doing it. AI has brought a f…

> Google'a mission "to organize the world's information" Google already gave up on this long ago. Their mission now is to print as much money as possible (late stage capitalism). It's unfortunate, because 2004-2014 was unlike anything we'd seen before, even in the dot-com days. Compared to anything before or since, ElGoog was Incredibly good for the 10's of thousands of rank-and-file employees. Thanks Ruth Porat! (Fo…

You’re not giving Sundar enough credit for Google’s slide to the evil side. Ruth is as you mentioned merely an instrument. Sundar “McKinsey” Pichai is the Ballmer of Google. For as long as he’s at the helm I’m extremely bearish about Google’s long term prospects.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#160

Post by shortrounddev2 »

animal_spirits wrote: post #100

In the end we will all lose, in my opinion. Google will start to charge more for access to YouTube, along with increasing ads. They will begin to pay creators less due to the increased cost in serving the ads. We will see a decline in the quality and quantity of high production video education.

The economics of youtube being what they are now, most content is already extremely low quality. The quality of YouTube content was much higher when it wasn't a viable platform for monetization
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