Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#151

Post by camillomiller » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:19 AM UTC

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #145

That's some great environmentalists you guys have in Europe. Between that and constant Metro strikes, guess I will just stick to gas-powered taxis.

These scooters are all but sustainable. They’re just a sick byproduct of VC-fueled startups that will potentially never turn a profit. To me they’re just like a meth sore of late stage urban capitalism. I’m confident that money getting more expensive with higher interest rates will have the positive effect of clearing the field from a lot of this BS that provides absolutely no added value to urban life in most cities. Also, here in Berlin these things are insanely expensive for what they offer. We’re talking about prices comparable to a carsharing car ride for the same stretch. If anything, carsharing is actually cheaper sometimes. (Yes, I know that’s also a problematic VC-fueled hallucination, especially here in Berlin).

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#152

Post by easytiger » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:20 AM UTC

muyuu wrote: post #41

twic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the streets are still littered with them. While cycling to work a while ago, i came across one parked in the middle of a segregated bike lane, in between a fence and a lane of heavy traffic. If this is the authority maximising control, i dread to think what uncontrolled use looks like.

it's more control than letting people own them, in a certain aspect of course, carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)

> carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)

no. They are returned to docking stations. Other schemes litter the pavement

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#153

Post by bombolo » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:20 AM UTC

hackerlight wrote: post #87

bombolo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people often park 5 cars between you and your door so that you have to walk over them to go inside? Didn't think so.

Cars take up more physical space, require public infrastructure that takes up significant taxpayer funding, tie up policing resources that take taxpayer funding, pollute noxious gas and sound that actively damage my health, contribute to global warming, and they are a lethal risk to others not just an "ouch you broke my leg by hitting into me" risk. There is no comparison.

Scooters require infrastructure too… unless you think that piling them up on sidewalks is the way forward…

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#154

Post by camillomiller » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:21 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #16

> She said on Sunday that their business model was "very expensive -- five euros for 10 minutes -- it's not very sustainable, and above all, it's the cause of a lot of accidents." It must be great to have a wise mayor in the government who calls out "expensive business models". > currently be hired by children as young as 12 When I went there, I read the Lime, Dott, etc rules and they all said 16, some 18+. Where did…

And why exactly shouldn’t people that live there have a democratic vote and have a say?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#155

Post by camillomiller » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:22 AM UTC

shtopointo wrote: post #2

Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also weight quite a bit, so getting hit with that may be life altering.

It’s nice to spot the Americans under this comment going for the “it’s not guns that kill people, it’s people” argument.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#156

Post by entropyneur » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #125

arijun wrote: post #47

I would like to provide a contrasting viewpoint. I can’t speak to the situation in Paris, but in the city I live in, scooters are amazing. They reduce car usage which is better for both pedestrians and car users. They turn a 45 minute walk/30 minute bus ride/20 minute cab into a 10-15 minute trip, which opens up much more of the city (the city I live in was not built for the number of cars it has in it so getting any…

No one is contending that using scooters is bad for the user. They are saying a bunch of drunk users are using them recklessly for non-users and are getting in people's way by parking them all over the sidewalks and streets. An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

Hmm, I'm pretty sure fining within EU is a solved problem and for everyone else we have border control.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#157

Post by camillomiller » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

theonlybutlet wrote: post #120

I think with perhaps less scooters and a more formal parking system akin to bike rental lockstands, the escooters could've continued to work in Paris. Problem was the place was littered with them, often piled up like fallen dominos on pavements blocking the walking path. They were really navigating a city that size.

It was actually already like this. Unlike Berlin, in Paris you could only park the kickscooters in designated areas.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#158

Post by camillomiller » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:24 AM UTC

FeistySkink wrote: post #3

I hope this becomes EU-wide. Every season it seems like there's a new generation that discovers and abuses them to no end, endangering everybody around.

I can’t wait for Berlin to ban them. Especially knowing the foolish VC economics that are behind this trend.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#159

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:24 AM UTC

deanc wrote: post #122

twelve40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this website says 14 years is the minimum age. Honest question, how is a 14-year-old safer in Parisian traffic on an e-bike than a scooter? You can easily go on sidewalks with bikes, too, if you are so inclined, and falling off into the traffic or hitting someone doesn't seem any less problematic?

The weight distribution in a scooter is all at the base. People have life changing foot and shin injuries from being impacted. People usually don’t cycle as quick consistently through cities, pressing a button on a scooter gets you to over 20km/h in moments.

[deleted]

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#160

Post by samastur » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:25 AM UTC

tomatocracy wrote: post #44

twic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the streets are still littered with them. While cycling to work a while ago, i came across one parked in the middle of a segregated bike lane, in between a fence and a lane of heavy traffic. If this is the authority maximising control, i dread to think what uncontrolled use looks like.

The rental escooters in London are terrible . You need a driving licence to use them, unlike rental ebikes. Yet they are slower than an ebike or even a regular bike. They are also really expensive. Then add to that the fact that'll they all have geofencing which (i) forces you off the less occupied bike lanes or roads in many cases (eg in/near the Royal Parks - including roads which are open to cars) and (ii) doesn't…

On the other hand, I enjoyed using them last year while in London for work. Could get to our office quicker than using public transport, it was more pleasant than stuck in hot boxes moving around and only slightly more expensive (at least in my case).