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Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

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Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#151

Post by pulse7 »

mcv wrote: post #146
Goz3rr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules specifically namedrop Github: > Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted. With Jekyll being there, I can only assume the intention was to mention GitHub Pages as an example, but as it is the rules clearly say using GitHub is NOT permitted. They could've questioned this discrepa…

But they used github just for git. If they hadn't mentioned github, nobody could have known. Or cared.

So using GitLab for the exact same thing would be OK?

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#152

Post by lelanthran »

aurbano wrote: post #116
Dalewyn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good that students learn this lesson now than later. Right now they get to learn these lessons with no skin off their backs. They're kids, most of the stuff they do is of no consequence one way or another. Once they enter the real world and the workforce, they get to learn these lessons with prices ranging from reprimands to terminations. Hardly a fun thing to go through.

We should foster a world full of people who use their brains to interpret rules. If we're going to blindly do something because "it's the exact rule written here" then we might as well replace all decision makers with an AI that never interprets anything. Their teacher was wrong for not interpreting the rules correctly - everyone's aware of that. On top of that the people writing those rules were wrong as well for ei…

> We should foster a world full of people who use their brains to interpret rules.

It's a competition. Competitions have rules, some of which are simply artificial barriers because of "competition". You can work to change the rules before agreeing to them.

If you disagree that a rule makes sense, provide your disagreement before entering.

Waiting until after you have found to have broken the rules you agreed to, to whine is simply unsporting and childish.

If the rule-breaker is not disqualified, it's unfair to the other participants who worked under those onerous rules to compete only to find out that one participant did less work by breaking a rule.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#153

Post by Aeolun »

Dalewyn wrote: post #110
denton-scratch wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rules clearly state "no Github" Did you actually read the rules? "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted." That rule is NOT clear; it implies that Github is forbidden specifically as a "site that generates HTML". There's no reason to interpret it as meaning that you can't even li…

The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. If you didn't read the rules, that's ignorance. If you read the rules and knowingly violate them, that's arrogance. If you unintentionally violate…

> It boggles the mind why "no Github" is such a controversial point.

The rule gives a list of examples that are not allowed because they generate HTML.

It seems clear to me that you shouldn’t use these tools for HTML generation.

This is the spirit of the rule, if not the letter.

No reasonable person would interpret this to mean that you cannot use Github to host your source, because it has no bearing on the competition whatsoever.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#154

Post by cxr »

Dalewyn wrote: post #90
onli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not like that you continue to call these students ignorant and arrogant.

Are they not? The rules clearly state "no Github", and when confronted with that fact their response is "it's stupid" and to go off on tangents about Github this and Github that. That's being ignorant of the rules, and being arrogant when you are told to abide them next time.

> their response is "it's stupid"

You're going to need to cite a source for that one, skipper.

On the (what appears at this point to be the not unreasonable) chance that you just made that up, and on the topic of what not to do: false quotes on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13602947>

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15892014>

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#155

Post by Dalewyn »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #140
Dalewyn wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in fact the rules specify a "Github" among others as examples of "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files" that you are "NOT permitted" (their emphasis) to use. Translating that into practical terms, it means "no Github", and also "no Jekyll" and all the other examples named and not named.

The Internet also allows such behavior so really it shouldn't have been allowed to use the Internet either. A reasonable person would realize the key part is "Template engine" and would think they are okay as long as they avoid those. They did avoid that, and still got disqualified. That is why it isn't reasonable

And such a person after being disqualified should learn their lesson to read and understand the rules thoroughly.

The rule in question even distinguishes between "Template engine websites" and "sites that generate HTML"; if you refuse to read beyond the first comma you are being disingenuous let alone being ignorant.

As an aside, "the internet" doesn't automagically generate HTML for you. Unless I missed a memo and we can just get HTML by sticking a cable into the wall. :V

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#156

Post by lelanthran »

richbell wrote: post #126
Dalewyn wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>or not being more explicit when writing them. You really can't get anymore explicit than "sites that generate HTML from text ... such as ... GitHub ... are NOT permitted." They even emphasized the "NOT" in "NOT permitted" to try and drive the point home for the particularly dense: You are not allowed to use Github, and all the others, period. Is excluding Github okay? If you ask me, that question is irrelevant. The…

> You really can't get anymore explicit than "sites that generate HTML from text ... such as ... GitHub ... are NOT permitted." > Is excluding Github okay? If you ask me, that question is irrelevant. The contest is about making a website by hand, nothing more and nothing less. This is an artificial environment and situation, and you either accept the rules and play by them or don't accept them and go elsewhere. It's…

> It's not irrelevant: it's the crux of the issue. The rule was clearly written by someone that lacks in-depth technical skills and is nonsensical.

That's irrelevant - all the other competitors had to labour under the burden of the rules, allowing one of the competitors to violate the rules gives that competitor an unfair advantage.

If you want to remove a rule that is nonsensical, you do it before you compete, you don't try to get it removed after you have gotten an unfair advantage by breaking it, because they it is too late for the other competitors to get the same advantage.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#157

Post by Aeolun »

richbell wrote: post #135
forgotpwd16 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You only use the template engine if you go through github.io That's where the site was deployed...

GitHub pages also deploys straight HTML if available, which is what they did. They did not use the template engine functionality.

Who the hell submits rendered markdown as a competition entry anyway? Do the truly think that’s something to worry about?

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#158

Post by ovao »

tanepiper wrote: post #117

From the original reddit thread, I emailed the TSA to point out this, and one other stupid point - they expected 100% uptime from the students sites. If this is supposed to be teaching the next generation of devs skills, then we've got a lot of Junior Developer Therapy ahead of us as we unteach the bad stuff.

Hey, that’s fine. The kids now get to expect 100% uptime from their teachers.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#159

Post by Aeolun »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #60
Dalewyn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartness has nothing to do with project requirements. If the requirements say "no Github", you don't use Github. It's really that simple. The rules don't specify "github.io" or "load .md files", it broadly specifies "Github" the website "that generate[s] HTML from text" in no uncertain terms. If you then proceed to use Github, it's only fair you are disqualified.

You may have a future teaching high school.

Or interviewer

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#160

Post by lelanthran »

samb1729 wrote: post #77
Dalewyn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The students were neither ignorant nor arrogant for interpreting the rules as they did. The person who graded their submission is at fault here, and the students deserve to be told this if they’re reading these comments. Someone who doesn’t know the difference between hosting a git repo and generating a static site with GitHub is unqualified to judge this project. The real lesson for these students is that there are…

> The person who graded their submission is at fault here,

How? The competitors who adhere to the rules are necessarily disadvantaged compared to the rule-breakers.

How do you now fairly judge a competition when you change the rules after the game has ended? There is no other way to resolve a breaking of a rule other than by disqualification, because if you remove that rule after the game has ended then all the other competitors have worked harder (because they avoided breaking that rule) and will be judged next to the rule-breaker who worked less.

You're looking at it from the PoV of the rule-breakers, and saying "This is clearly a stupid rule". Look at it from the PoV of those competitors who had to do without github - they are saying "well, it's unfair that those people can win when we had to work harder because we did not use github".

And to be even more clear: the stupidity is in complaining about a rule after the game has ended.

Nowhere is this acceptable behaviour - you can complain about the rules before starting the game, you can try to get it changed, you can boycott the game, you can spread awareness ... but when you complain only when you were caught out, then that disqualification is soundly deserved.

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