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Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

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Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to reiterate, what you say is true, and I pointed out I conceded pretty much your major points to coworkers at Apple when I worked there (it was just a couple coworkers, and just a one time comment, but it did get a laugh of agreement). My only argument is that Apple has caused much less damage than Microsoft because they have been less successful, and in that sense Microsoft maintains the greater negative karma…

To be honest, I have no negative feelings about either. They're both just doing what they feel is in their own best interests. That's the responsibility of a corporation. I find the grudge most people in the community have against MS a little juvenile and not very well-reasoned.

I suspect age difference has an effect, here.

Since Netscape was taken down, we've seen a world where hackers can execute an idea and become successful based on their execution, sometimes abundantly so. I do not think it's accidental that this period largely coincides with Microsoft losing their anti-trust case.

Before then, Microsoft would just wait until a market formed, then take it over or destroy it by bundling something with one of their monopoly products. People who had a dream of creating a successful software business knew Microsoft's business practices made that extremely unlikely.

So, yes, many developers who were around during Microsoft's heyday likely are carrying a grudge that must seem juvenile to anyone familiar with the much less threatening Microsoft of today. Whether it's juvenile to have bad feelings towards an organization that snuffed out a lot of optimism and ambition, I'll leave to you to decide.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I have no negative feelings about either. They're both just doing what they feel is in their own best interests. That's the responsibility of a corporation. I find the grudge most people in the community have against MS a little juvenile and not very well-reasoned.

I suspect age difference has an effect, here. Since Netscape was taken down, we've seen a world where hackers can execute an idea and become successful based on their execution, sometimes abundantly so. I do not think it's accidental that this period largely coincides with Microsoft losing their anti-trust case. Before then, Microsoft would just wait until a market formed, then take it over or destroy it by bundling…

These days I'm not concerned about Microsoft -- the companies that concern hackers w/r/t overtaking their product would be Apple and Google.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#153
post #6

MS and apple... It's kind of cute, like watching kids fight :)

I'd say the same thing about the presidential debates. The problem is that these cute fights represent a power struggle of unthinkable magnitude and influence.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#154
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at your own comments my friend, especially the ones I quoted. You think that's not condescending? Maybe don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Every one of the statements you quoted were made preceding an attempt to explain them. You've explained yourself part of the time, but at other times you end up sneering and saying nothing useful.

Nerd fight!

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only difference between the two is that Microsoft was far more successful. Apple would have done everything people complain about Microsoft doing and more. They basically have in the couple product areas where they've had similar success.

I think you may be too young to remember what Microsoft was like in the 1980s, but this isn't true. The companies had very different personalities. Apple was always about making great things, whereas Microsoft's path was to ruthlessly exploit the monopoly that IBM dropped in their lap. That path made Microsoft more successful in the short term (particularly after Jobs was exiled) but in the long term making good thin…

Do you really think that Apple wouldn't have ruthlessly exploited the monopoly if they had come about it? Their actions with iPod/iPhone make me think they would have. Jobs is just as much the ruthless dictator as Gates. In fact from what I've read/heard from people that know them, they seem to share a lot of the same personality traits.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#156
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be too young to remember what Microsoft was like in the 1980s, but this isn't true. The companies had very different personalities. Apple was always about making great things, whereas Microsoft's path was to ruthlessly exploit the monopoly that IBM dropped in their lap. That path made Microsoft more successful in the short term (particularly after Jobs was exiled) but in the long term making good thin…

Do you really think that Apple wouldn't have ruthlessly exploited the monopoly if they had come about it? Their actions with iPod/iPhone make me think they would have. Jobs is just as much the ruthless dictator as Gates. In fact from what I've read/heard from people that know them, they seem to share a lot of the same personality traits.

Not as ruthlessly, I don't think. Not because Jobs is a nicer guy than Gates, but because he has taste. He could not bring himself to ship a crappy product. And so wherever shipping something great didn't coincide with exploiting the monopoly, he would not have been able to go so far down the latter vector.

Also, shipping great stuff requires you to have great hackers to build it, and great hackers have principles. They limit how evil a company can be. You can see this most clearly at Google. If they tried to do anything too evil, they'd face an internal rebellion. Apple employees seem a bit more intimidated by Jobs, but they are pretty idealistic too. A lot would quit if Apple went too far, and Jobs is smart enough about people to know that.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#157
post #55

This is pretty ironic considering how Mac ads far outnumber Windows ads. Maybe next time around Apple can pull a few of the spots and get Java up to date sooner than a year after an OS release.

But do the Apple ads cost as much as this Microsoft campaign? (Disclaimer: I don't know if they do or not. I'm curious myself about this.) Because with Microsoft the cost of the ads kept popping up, especially in regards with Seinfeld. I'm guessing their current campaign is pretty vastly expensive, and I don't know if Apple's campaign is or not.

While 3 years old, this article says Apple spend $287 million in advertising in 2005, and that was part of an upward trend. http://news.cnet.com/iPod-ads-cost-Apple-a-bundle/2100-1047_...

In comparison, the Vista campaign is reported at $300 million today.

I think we can say that Apple spends comparable money on advertising as Microsoft.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it does make this particular commercial annoying and misleading; a big disappointment from the clever ones that began this ad campaign.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#158
These ads lack class, which is what Apple has always tried to stand for, in design of their products and their company image - anyone remember the Think Different campaign?

I'd rather they work on reducing the difference in price between the pc world and the mac in laptops. It used to be a couple hundred dollars difference, which I'm ok with because that, to me, is the price of OSX, but its getting increasingly harder to justify the expanding price difference.

If/when the OSX86 project gets to the point where their ISO is a no-brainer install of OSX on cheap dell/acer (etc.) laptops then Apple will have to reconsider its pricing.

The irony here (like rain on your wedding day!) is that it's actually Apple with that big pile of cash spending it on advertising, while MSFT goes back to the drawing board to come up with an O/S that more people like...

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#159
post #81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and yet linux (specially ubuntus 8.04, 8.10) feel pretty polished to me. yes, to a fault.

No. I've played with Ubuntu in each iteration, and its level of polish is on a magnitude below what Apple's doing. Compared to Windows, it's very nice: I'd pick Ubuntu over Vista at this point without hesitation. But OS X has polish to a level that's uncanny: it's the sort where I'm still finding out new things about my computer that make my life slightly easier every day. It's really beyond comparison to other opera…

i disagree.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=131495

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=131547

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