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Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

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Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#81

Post by unalone »

utx00 wrote: post #67
unalone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try not to get mean - I'm a Mac user, and I know how much I hate it when Windows users get douchey - but I think that the biggest problem they'd need to fix is the ration of aesthetic to functionality. It's what pissed me off every day with Vista. Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability. For instance, that window display where they're all sideways and you can scroll throu…

and yet linux (specially ubuntus 8.04, 8.10) feel pretty polished to me. yes, to a fault.

No. I've played with Ubuntu in each iteration, and its level of polish is on a magnitude below what Apple's doing. Compared to Windows, it's very nice: I'd pick Ubuntu over Vista at this point without hesitation. But OS X has polish to a level that's uncanny: it's the sort where I'm still finding out new things about my computer that make my life slightly easier every day. It's really beyond comparison to other operating systems as the other systems stand right now.

Still, what works for you works. If Ubuntu's doing the job for you, then congrats and have fun. Just don't make the mistake of comparing it to the Mac systems without spending a lot of time in each.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#82

Post by wizlb »

unalone wrote: post #57
cbrinker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mac ads have had pc's reputation on the ropes in the collective unconscious." Do you mean Microsoft? If so, it sure as hell hasn't scratched the business world. It's only knicked the consumer world a couple percentage points. I'd reconsider your position. Further, this is kind of old and becoming a nonissue in today's world. With the migration towards non-platform-specific consumer usage of systems (ie. internet) I…

Right now, Apple's pushing for the businessplace. Snow Leopard is supposed to have out-of-the-box Exchange support, which is a step Apple needs to take. Beyond that, Apple's been winning over plenty of small businesses: not the big guys yet, but large corporations can't change on a dime. If Apple stays as consistently reliable for another handful of years, I'd predict us seeing the Mac starting to gain entry to the w…

Exchange support? Whip-dee-doo. How about offering some _real_ developer tools?

Oh, that's cute...you think xCode, Python and MySQL can actually be compared to Visual Studio, C# and SQL Server.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#83

Post by unalone »

wizlb wrote: post #76
teej wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, Leopard is a lot better than Vista.

To be honest...any version of Windows is better than Leopard. Especially if you value choice and flexibility.

Leopard's plenty flexible. By choice, do you mean being forced to pay extra money just to get an operating system that hasn't had features removed? Because I know Leopard only costs $80, but it's full-featured and that's what I care about.

Or do you mean the choice to tinker with every little aspect of your computer? Because the system's entirely moddable. I mean, I would never voluntarily hack my computer, because I cherish it the way it is, but I remember there being a lot of buzz about the Gaia Suite, which is a complete redesign of the OS.

Do you mean the lack of programs available? Because you can get MS Office if you really don't like iWork (though iWork is wonderful, in this user's opinion), and you can get replacements for every single iLife program. It's just that most people don't, because iPhoto and iTunes and Mail and GarageBand are really all excellent programs. (The one program on my entire system that I dislike is iDVD, and I feel like one bad program is a small concession to make.)

If by "flexibility" you mean a non-unified system, then you might have a point, but I like knowing that the same keyboard shortcuts work for every single application I have. I like knowing the menus work the same. Hell, I like having a system-wide spellcheck. You've still got choice - I'm sure you could make a new spellchecker - but really, what's the point if it works?

If you're going to diss an operating system in a community of people who really are enthusiastic about the computers that they use, at least make a good point, like the guy who mentioned Apple's Java fark-up. You can't come in blindly making insults and expect anything good to come of it. So how about you come up with some good criticisms, and in return I will try to be fairly critical of your operating system in return.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#84

Post by [deleted] »

thomasmallen wrote: post #63
unalone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do the Apple ads cost as much as this Microsoft campaign? (Disclaimer: I don't know if they do or not. I'm curious myself about this.) Because with Microsoft the cost of the ads kept popping up, especially in regards with Seinfeld. I'm guessing their current campaign is pretty vastly expensive, and I don't know if Apple's campaign is or not.

It's just that, regardless of cost-effectiveness, an advertisement that criticizes another company for spending money on advertising is pretty hypocritical.

[deleted]

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#85

Post by unalone »

wizlb wrote: post #79
unalone wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to your story, I'm fairly certain there are more convert stories among people who have used the Mac than there are stories of people disliking them.

Really? You're certain? How certain are you? Both me and my wife have had the displeasure of using Macs in the past. I even owned one for about 6 months, a mac mini. I replaced it with Vista and Vista's Media Center pretty much owns Front Row (pfft, don't even get me started). The dock sucks compared to the task bar, you can't even see what's running on the dock. Oh and it's slow.

I've never used a Mac Mini, so I don't know how slow it is, though I'd guess that it's not in the same league as Apple's higher-end products.

Out of curiosity, what makes Front Row worse than the Media Center? I rarely use Front Row, but I'd like to know what Vista Media Center does better.

The dock absolutely is better than the task bar. The TB is cluttered - why do I need a box for every open window when I can just see the windows (hence Expose)? The Dock shows you running applications (though not background processes, though that's okay since neither does the task bar), it shows you minimized windows, and it shows you your set launch applications. I've argued before and I still believe that the presence of the dock is what makes OS X the superior system. It focuses on efficiency. The fact that it houses the Trash and the new Stacks system makes it even better: it removes a hell of a lot of clutter.

I've never had a speed problem with my computer, though to be fair I use a MBP with 2 gigs of ram. That said, I can run multiple intensive processes at once and still do casual tasks like browsing without a speed hit.

And despite what you've said, I'm still fairly certain. Meaning no disrespect to you, I've had such a wonderful experience with my computer that I can't possibly imagine people liking Windows more once they get into OS X. Again: your existence shows that I'm not entirely correct, but I'd still believe that of the people who've used both OSes noncasually, more people like the Mac over the PC.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#86

Post by unalone »

wizlb wrote: post #82
unalone wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, Apple's pushing for the businessplace. Snow Leopard is supposed to have out-of-the-box Exchange support, which is a step Apple needs to take. Beyond that, Apple's been winning over plenty of small businesses: not the big guys yet, but large corporations can't change on a dime. If Apple stays as consistently reliable for another handful of years, I'd predict us seeing the Mac starting to gain entry to the w…

Exchange support? Whip-dee-doo. How about offering some _real_ developer tools? Oh, that's cute...you think xCode, Python and MySQL can actually be compared to Visual Studio, C# and SQL Server.

While I do like that you're taking the time to reply to each of my comments in turn, could we keep this a little civil? I love flamefests as much as anybody, but this isn't the sort of argument that requires sarcasm and vitriol.

I said Exchange because it's the one thing I've read about. I am not a businessperson, nor am I a programmer: the closest I get to programming is PHP, because it's all that I need. I said that that's what Apple's been up to, because it is: they're obviously pushing to make Macs business-friendly.

I'd guess that most businesses don't have computers for the sake of programming, though. Most people in the workplace don't program. They email, they discuss things with coworkers. With a few tweaks, the Mac ought to be ready for that sort of thing in a secure environment. And that's just as much a part of business as coding is.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#87

Post by pavelludiq »

utx00 wrote: post #67
unalone wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try not to get mean - I'm a Mac user, and I know how much I hate it when Windows users get douchey - but I think that the biggest problem they'd need to fix is the ration of aesthetic to functionality. It's what pissed me off every day with Vista. Microsoft added features that look "Mac-like" but without the inherent usability. For instance, that window display where they're all sideways and you can scroll throu…

and yet linux (specially ubuntus 8.04, 8.10) feel pretty polished to me. yes, to a fault.

Yeah, i've been using kubuntu since 7.04. Unfortunately kubuntu is less polished than the gnome version, but for the last year and a half it got better and better with every next release. Hopefully the next release will not be a disappointment because the still raw kde 4.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#88

Post by YuriNiyazov »

wizlb wrote: post #82
unalone wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, Apple's pushing for the businessplace. Snow Leopard is supposed to have out-of-the-box Exchange support, which is a step Apple needs to take. Beyond that, Apple's been winning over plenty of small businesses: not the big guys yet, but large corporations can't change on a dime. If Apple stays as consistently reliable for another handful of years, I'd predict us seeing the Mac starting to gain entry to the w…

Exchange support? Whip-dee-doo. How about offering some _real_ developer tools? Oh, that's cute...you think xCode, Python and MySQL can actually be compared to Visual Studio, C# and SQL Server.

Actually... yes; and, I daresay, comes out on top. Having lost countless hours of my life debugging .NET Framework installation problems (yay, installer ran and finished. Why isn't this damn thing showing up in my list of components?), I have to say that never spend nearly that much debugging silly installation issues with Python and MySQL.

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#89

Post by wizlb »

unalone wrote: post #85
wizlb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You're certain? How certain are you? Both me and my wife have had the displeasure of using Macs in the past. I even owned one for about 6 months, a mac mini. I replaced it with Vista and Vista's Media Center pretty much owns Front Row (pfft, don't even get me started). The dock sucks compared to the task bar, you can't even see what's running on the dock. Oh and it's slow.

I've never used a Mac Mini, so I don't know how slow it is, though I'd guess that it's not in the same league as Apple's higher-end products. Out of curiosity, what makes Front Row worse than the Media Center? I rarely use Front Row, but I'd like to know what Vista Media Center does better. The dock absolutely is better than the task bar. The TB is cluttered - why do I need a box for every open window when I can just…

I'm not going to get in a back-and-forth with you about what I hate about Macs.

The point is that there are a LOT of people out there that absolutely can't stand Macs. As a matter of fact, besides me and my wife EVERY single person in my office hates them (most of us are programmers and YES, we've actually used them before).

Re: Apple responds to "I'm a PC"

#90

Post by briansmith »

unalone wrote: post #81
utx00 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and yet linux (specially ubuntus 8.04, 8.10) feel pretty polished to me. yes, to a fault.

No. I've played with Ubuntu in each iteration, and its level of polish is on a magnitude below what Apple's doing. Compared to Windows, it's very nice: I'd pick Ubuntu over Vista at this point without hesitation. But OS X has polish to a level that's uncanny: it's the sort where I'm still finding out new things about my computer that make my life slightly easier every day. It's really beyond comparison to other opera…

Ubuntu is not more polished than even Windows XP. The main things keeping me from switching my day-to-day work to my Ubuntu partition are (1) text rendering, (2) reliability, (3) battery life, and (4) Lenovo's Thinkvantage tools. Windows XP absolutely kills Ubuntu in these aspects.
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