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The Xinjiang Police Files

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Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#151

Post by cies »

enaaem wrote: post #67
shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

That’s why, as a westerner, I consider the Uyghur issue not to be ‘our’ problem. It’s terrible what’s happening there, but there are more than 2 billion muslims in the world who can do something about it.

Kinda sad that you cannot see humans as humans, but need to see every one by their religion-label (what ever that means).

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#152

Post by throwaway052422 »

shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

Conversely, I've seen many people in the U.S. argue that terrorist attacks from extremists justified a harsh national security response when the attacks happen to countries like the United States or Israel. Then these same people completely ignore the numerous terrorist attacks from extremists that China has faced[1], and say a strong national security response is completely unjustified.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Terrorist_i...

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#153

Post by skitout »

lazylion2 wrote: post #140
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon. EDIT…

"almost exactly the same situation" Did the Muslims in Xinjiang declare a war against China? did they blow up Chinese buses or shoot thousands of rockets at Chinese civilians ?

There have been several (terrorist) attacks against Chinese civilians in Xinjiang over the years. The perpetrators have been lone wolfs, and people part of organized groups. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict

Personally I think that attack on civilians cannot justify the actions of Chinese state or of the Israeli state (massive repression against civilians and continued colonization). And while I condemn both China and Israel for such actions, the two situation are very different.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#154

Post by cies »

tragomaskhalos wrote: post #65

The calls for affirmative action against China had a very low probability of bearing fruit beforehand, but since the Russian invasion of Ukraine I would put them at 0% - no sane politician wants to do anything that will push the Chinese further into common ground with Russia.

A little like "The calls for affirmative action against US [for Guatanamo] had a very low probability of bearing fruit"

It's like the large states can just do horrible things to people without every being punished!

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#155

Post by rayiner »

shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

My impression is that most Muslims don’t real care about Muslims from other ethnic groups. Pakistan and Bangladesh, for example, are happy to suck up to China for the business opportunities. Similarly, the gulf states took few Syrian refugees during the recent crises: https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Syrian-refugees-why-wo.... More generally, Arabs regard non-Arab Muslims as barely human—e.g. holding Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in near slavery conditions: https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slav...

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#156

Post by ciphol »

throwaway052422 wrote: post #152
shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

Conversely, I've seen many people in the U.S. argue that terrorist attacks from extremists justified a harsh national security response when the attacks happen to countries like the United States or Israel. Then these same people completely ignore the numerous terrorist attacks from extremists that China has faced[1], and say a strong national security response is completely unjustified. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/…

Nobody argues that attacks on the US or Israel justify the US or Israel putting their Muslim population into camps like China does.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#157

Post by refurb »

cies wrote: post #150
refurb wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read your own link? The "Aftermath" section where several courts condemned those actions and awarded substantial awards to the victims. The City apologized. Independent commissions condemned the decision. Can you please list all of the acts of restitution that the Chinese government has done since 1989? Oh, and ignoring all that, you're posting an awful lot of whataboutisms . I count about 9 of them so far. W…

While you are right, I think GP still has a point. Those responsible for the MOVE massacre walked from it. The broader point I think GP tries to make is: the west should not be so quick to point fingers, especially not while it's own fingers are covered in blood. The US likes to same "human rights violations" about other nations, but then commits many themselves every year, and claims to be above the The Hague court.…

So you're suggesting that the US, since it's guilty of human rights violations, should just be silent when it sees others countries commit human rights violations?

I think that's absurd.

There isn't a country on this planet who hasn't committed some human rights violation in its past.

By your logic, nobody should ever call out human rights violations...ever.

A far better approach is to judge a country by its actions in totality. Yes the US commits human rights violations, but it also has courts where victims can seek restitution, a free press to talk about such violations, free elections where voters can choose leaders who work against human rights violations.

To compare the US and China and say "well they're both guilty of the same sins" is, frankly, bizarre.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#158

Post by spywaregorilla »

aasasd wrote: post #106

As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.

Ukrainians are white. Don't underestimate the impact of that.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#159

Post by rayiner »

dr_faustus wrote: post #40
shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.

In my experience the constant outrage over Palestine is driven more by hatred of Israel than concern about Palestinians. Antisemitism is universal in the Muslim world,[1] not so with anti-Sino sentiment. Note that the wealthy Arab states surrounding Palestine aren’t leaping to admit refugees from Palestine.

[1] I think my home country of Bangladesh is thousands of miles away from any significant population of Jews. Yet the casual antisemitism is off the charts.

EDIT: Got some anonymous hate mail from a BDS saying “the tide is turning” and threatening me for my support of the “apartheid state Israel.” Sorry for exposing the things folks say “just between us.”

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#160

Post by watwut »

thriftwy wrote: post #76
Paradigma11 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bomb, torture and kill them till you get a dictatorial regime that is subservient to you?

You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. That seems to be a very high bar if we compare it with USA/NATO/EU/Chinese endeavours in any of Muslim regions. The grandparent made it sound like the devastation were ongoing, which it's not. Stopping the violence is a good thing. If you don't acknowledge it, you can't even tell failure fro…

> You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region.

Not starting that war in the first place would be even better.

> Stopping the violence is a good thing.

Not committing it in the first place is even better.

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