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The Xinjiang Police Files

xinjiangpolicefiles.org

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Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#131

Post by Melting_Harps »

mschuster91 wrote: post #111
Melting_Harps wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> No, they are called Nazis, when anyone with a even a shred of reason would conclude that Zionism is the very reincarnation of Nazism and is used to suit their own agenda and narrative. What? Israel doesn't run concentration camps, forced labor camps, or rounds up and executes Palestinians for being Palestinians. That comparison is not just factually wrong, it's one of the most morally despicable takes I have ever h…

> That comparison is not just factually wrong, it's one of the most morally despicable takes I have ever had the displeasure of reading here on HN.

According to who, you?

Have you actually looked at what and how Palestinian's are forced to live during occupation and then made worse after COVID?

Here is an example of fored labour via poverty [0]:

Construction and infrastructure projects in Israel, and in Israeli settlements within the West Bank, are hugely dependent upon Palestinian labor. Under a lockdown in a pandemic this means that Palestinian workers are exposed to serious health risks while helping Israel cement its control over Palestinian land and people.

You want to see death squads in Palestine? But how about just watching illegal phosphorous munitions (a war crime) being used on Civilians [1]. You can also look into all of the atrocities of disproportionate violence against civilians by the Isreali military (which is to say the Israeli Citizens themselves since it's mandatory) from re-settlement on your own.

Your selective biases and forced narrative work with those with woke political bends, that much is clear, but they fall under even the slightest amount of scrutiny for anyone who is willing to look.

And before you resort to the absurd notions of antisemitism, I've been helping in Ukraine since the Maidan Revolution which has a large Jewish population, specifically in Lviv which is where I've spent the most time.

This has nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with calling people who are driven by genocidal and ethnic cleansing ideology what they are: Israelis as a whole have become the very thing they supposedly detested and have behaved that way since the re-settlement after WWII.

0: https://merip.org/2020/05/palestinian-workers-in-israel-caug...

1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/oct/23/israel

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#132

Post by grapeskin »

simonh wrote: post #117
grapeskin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has Uyghur politicians, so by your reasoning, they're identical to Israel.

In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity. There are also incentives for people to register as members of minority groups such as scholarships*, yet also stark differences in the treatment of members of minorities who are or are not integrated into Chinese culture and the communist party in pa…

> In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity.

I mean, America has the one drop rule too, and you’re highly suggested to pick your most minority group any time you apply to a job, school, or basically anything. So you have people who are 1/128th Cherokee trying to game diversity benefits while people who actively culturally identify with their tribe are on reservations and basically forgotten by the world.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#133

Post by smcl »

4ggr0 wrote: post #107
Maakuth wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it would be helpful if you provided some grounds on why you do not trust this foundation. There are other messages in this discussion showing distrust in the foundation and Dr. Zenz, but none provide background for that.

I know that I am part of a minority when saying this, and to give some context, I live in a Social Democracy and do like it as it is. Now, why I don't like this foundation. First off, every bad thing happening in communist countries seems to be attributed to the concept of communism itself, and not to the fact that these countries are ruled by dictators. They also state "we tell the truth about communism because our…

Comments which mention socialism or communism in a way that doesn't explicitly condemn it are often downvoted to oblivion on HN. I got it once because I mentioned that I thought Tito was an interesting guy. FWIW I'll vouch the comment if it gets made [dead]

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#134

Post by refurb »

trasz wrote: post #129
refurb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason is pretty clear - Western nations can be pressured and people can voice their opinion and protest their own government's actions. Only a little over 30 years ago China rolled out its military and crushed its own citizens beneath tank treads, then denied the whole thing happened. Public condemnation against China will do nothing, so Islamic countries don't even try. Plus I would throw in a bit of ge…

Only a little over 30 years ago USA rolled out its police to blow up its own citizens, razing entire city block: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing . They didn't need to deny or cover up anything, obviously nobody got punished for this, because the victims were black. So, yeah, while the Western people can certainly voice their opinion, it's often because their opinion doesn't matter. ("According to an a…

Did you read your own link? The "Aftermath" section where several courts condemned those actions and awarded substantial awards to the victims. The City apologized. Independent commissions condemned the decision.

Can you please list all of the acts of restitution that the Chinese government has done since 1989?

Oh, and ignoring all that, you're posting an awful lot of whataboutisms. I count about 9 of them so far.

What game are you playing?

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#135

Post by sgift »

aasasd wrote: post #106

As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.

And non-western countries were very adamant that Ukraine is an European problem and they don't want to take sides. Why exactly is it the responsibility of "the West" to do something first? Let other countries take the lead for once instead of sitting on the sidelines and crying that whatever the West does or doesn't is wrong.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#136

Post by trasz »

simonh wrote: post #117
grapeskin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has Uyghur politicians, so by your reasoning, they're identical to Israel.

In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity. There are also incentives for people to register as members of minority groups such as scholarships*, yet also stark differences in the treatment of members of minorities who are or are not integrated into Chinese culture and the communist party in pa…

>It's a deliberate program of ethnic and cultural dilution and assimilation.

As opposed to a proper racial segregation. Horrible indeed.

/s

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#137

Post by thematrixturtle »

shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

It's more complicated than that. The majority of China's Muslims are Hui, who are ethnically Han Chinese and thus not considered an existential threat to the state. The Uyghurs, on the other hand, are genetically and linguistically different, live in territory that was not originally Chinese (Xinjiang literally means "New Territory") and would genuinely prefer to have their own state.

Of course, the CCP is very averse to any power structures they don't completely control and thus regularly cracks down on all sorts of organized religion (Christian churches, Falun Gong, etc).

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#138

Post by smcl »

emptysongglass wrote: post #74
4ggr0 wrote: post #28

I hope that this is a genuine leak showing what's going on there. Just don't like the organisation behind this leak, at all, and don't really trust them. But as long as this leak is objective I can ignore this aspect. Really sickening to see what's going on in Xinjiang. EDIT: I said it's sickening to see what's going on and i strongly oppose what China is doing in Xinjang, am I really getting downvotes just because I…

From the Hacker News Guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

IMO it's ok to edit a comment to ask why you're being downvoted. The comment itself is on-topic, and has sparked an on-topic discussion so I don't see the issue.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#139

Post by thematrixturtle »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #122
james-redwood wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the death camps? The gas chambers? This comment has no place on HN for sheer idiocy and sensationalism.

> Where are the death camps? The gas chambers? This comment has no place on HN for sheer idiocy and sensationalism. Gaza itself is an open air internment camp, under Israeli occupation; they use illegal munitions on civilian targets, and claim that its extremist reside within those homes. Their is a literal wall surrounding all of Gaza in order to keep them in place, and you have the audacity to make such a claim? An…

I agree that Gaza is a crime against humanity, but neither is it Buchenwald and you're not doing your argument any favors with the hyperbole.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#140

Post by lazylion2 »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #59
dr_faustus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.

It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon. EDIT…

"almost exactly the same situation"

Did the Muslims in Xinjiang declare a war against China? did they blow up Chinese buses or shoot thousands of rockets at Chinese civilians ?

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