Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#151

Post by yiyus » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 12:36 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #149

yiyus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why anyone in Spain seems to care about Catalonian independence. I never cared, but I do care about the image they are projecting of my country (specially as someone living abroad). Moreover, they are doing great getting the worse of everyone. I never liked nationalism (including Spanish nationalism) and now it's worse than ever. And I do not like anti-riot police, and I do not want my government to cl…

If tomorrow the Spanish state disappears and we just become one big European country, I would not mind at all. I have unfortunate news for you. People hating larger governmental forces that control them isn't something weirdly unique to Spain or European nations. It is a part of the universal human condition. If all existing European nations were abolished and merged into a new EU "country", guess what? The "national…

That's an interesting point of view I cannot say I disagree with. I do not see big fundamental differences between many small countries working together with those smart borders you mention or some kind of big federal estate that gives a large autonomy to its members, but you are right that what you propose may work better in practice.

Either way, my point was that the reason I care is not the unity of Spain. You said you did not understand why anyone would care and I said why I do. You do not have to agree with me.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#152

Post by yiyus » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 12:48 PM UTC

oska wrote: post #143

yiyus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why anyone in Spain seems to care about Catalonian independence. I never cared, but I do care about the image they are projecting of my country (specially as someone living abroad). Moreover, they are doing great getting the worse of everyone. I never liked nationalism (including Spanish nationalism) and now it's worse than ever. And I do not like anti-riot police, and I do not want my government to cl…

> And I think I could accept all this if it was for a good reason, but I think it is just stupid nonsense (did we learn nothing from Brexit?). It's not for you to decide that. If a majority of people in a region (yes, still to be conclusively shown for Catalonia) wish to have independence and their own self-government then they should have it. Otherwise you are promoting tyranny. You're like the husband who tells his…

When I say "this", I do not talk about the independence of Catalonia. I refer to everything I wrote in the previous paragraph that you have ignored to instead talk about divorces (a bad analogy, by the way).

They have created a problem that is directly affecting me, and only for their own benefit. And I am the tyrant here?

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#153

Post by yiyus » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

oska wrote: post #142

yiyus wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I told you how you could make your own opinion based on sources from the independentist movement because I think that would be fairer than me trying to convince you, but I perfectly understand that you don't want to spend your whole day making a difficult research based on some vague indications so that you can agree with my comment. Some of the evidence you ask for include the mishandling of public funds, use of per…

> but I mind if you agree with their view of Spain as an authoritarian country There's a very ugly side to Spain, just as there is a very ugly side to Japan, France, the USA, Russia, Australia (my own country) and, I'm sure, the Catalan independence movement too. There is an ugly side to any entity when it feels its power is threatened and when it tries to suppress people's freedoms in response. Viewing this story fr…

Yes. You are totally right. The ugly side of Spain is quite big and very ugly. We have to fight that. I have already written in other comments that I absolutely reject the violence of the police during the referendum, for example, and that all Spanish governments have made big mistakes with this topic. We need reforms in our justice and electoral systems. We have horrible politicians (Catalonia is not exception here). But Spain is not, by any definition I know, an authoritarian country.

Moreover, I think we have to condemn the governments, the institutions, the citizens with bad behavior (there are indeed many of them in both sides, and therefore obviously many more in the non-indpendentist side). But when they constantly talk about "Spain" as if it was something external to them and refer to it as some banana republic, I feel insulted.

I quite often see the same thing happening with the USA. Sometimes people do not criticize their administration, but they criticize the US, or "the Americans". I would understand if the US people complained about that. I would specially understand it if this criticism came from inside the US.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#154

Post by repolfx » Fri, Nov 01, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

yiyus wrote: post #151

repolfx wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If tomorrow the Spanish state disappears and we just become one big European country, I would not mind at all. I have unfortunate news for you. People hating larger governmental forces that control them isn't something weirdly unique to Spain or European nations. It is a part of the universal human condition. If all existing European nations were abolished and merged into a new EU "country", guess what? The "national…

That's an interesting point of view I cannot say I disagree with. I do not see big fundamental differences between many small countries working together with those smart borders you mention or some kind of big federal estate that gives a large autonomy to its members, but you are right that what you propose may work better in practice. Either way, my point was that the reason I care is not the unity of Spain. You sai…

Yes, I understand, fair point.