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Gmail marking email from me as spam

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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#151

Post by brongondwana »

austhrow743 wrote: post #129
brongondwana wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're still a fair way away from that! We're growing steadily, but not at the same rate that "give it away free and work out how to monetize it later" services do. Worth it for having a sound business model and no venture capital breathing down our necks to turn evil though.

Thank you for not being evil. Please allow me to export notes to txt.

hah - nice segue to a feature request! You can access notes via IMAP, so that's an easy way to get the whole lot raw.

As for a more general download - what would you be looking for? A zip file containing all the notes?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#152

Post by LeonM »

guizb wrote: post #119

The email landscape is substantially more complex now than it was three decades ago. The poster seems to be frustrated that he is mostly getting technical explanations to his rather emotionally fueled question. He is literally phishing for an argument on the morals of a big company deciding he is a potential spammer without absolute proof. He made it clear that his opinion is that there should be a system in place at…

Rarely have I seen such concise and respectful way of describing the typical rants I see on HN way to often, bravo! I can only wish I had your writing skills.

> It's insulting to the folks that are pouring their time replying to what they think is a user in need of technical assistance, only to eventually stop replying when it becomes obvious that he only replies with questions of morality and treats most answers as if they were platitudes specifically attempting to dismiss his efforts to communicate.

Yes, I have been bitten by this many times. Every time I see a topic like this one I try to help that person by offering technical advice, basically doing my consulting job for free for everyone to read. And many times the post gets downvoted till its dead.

Slowly I learned that people don't want a solution to their problem, they just want to vent their (understandable) frustration about $BIGCORP. But it still hurts to get downvoted when you just try to help.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#154

Post by rmtech »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #97
irjustin wrote: post #79

I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents. Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion. As a gmai…

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

Just for fun I checked my spam folder as I read this.

I found an important email (from 3 days ago) from a recruiter asking for my CV in it.

Yeah, Google's spam has erred too far towards making false positive errors.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#155

Post by dest »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #144
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's incorrect to say that running an email server requires just "a bit more work". Google basically no longer allows low volume servers to send mail. I wrote more about this here: https://www.attejuvonen.fi/dont-send-email-from-your-own-ser...

Sounds like there's a niche business and/or OSS project there. Create gmail accounts. Install email send bot on email server. Send messages to Gmail accounts. Figure out how to avoid spam.

Won't this be exploited by spammers?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#156

Post by throwaway2048 »

Avamander wrote: post #148
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's incorrect to say that running an email server requires just "a bit more work". Google basically no longer allows low volume servers to send mail. I wrote more about this here: https://www.attejuvonen.fi/dont-send-email-from-your-own-ser...

My low volume server can send mail very nicely. You can't however do your job half-assed, lack of strong SPF/TLS/DKIM isn't okay from both Google's and anti-spam perspective.

How are you verifying this? I encourage you to try sending to a gmail address you have never sent to before, I virtually guarantee you are going to end up spamboxed.

I know lots of people that run low volume personal type servers, many have claimed that gmail doesn't spambox them, but they were always testing on a (handful of) personal account(s), when I got them to check with an account they had never mailed before, they were spam boxed literally 100% of the time.

Properly setup, and strict FCrDNS, DMARC, DKIM, SPF, TLS and a clean IP and an old domain that have both never sent spam are absolutely not enough to avoid gmail's spambox.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#158

Post by throwaway2048 »

LeonM wrote: post #118

I run an email security/monitoring business [0], and we hear this issue with Gmail a lot, in fact: we have been bitten by it as well during the early days. The problem at hand is that it is really hard to debug situations like this. Google won't tell you why a particular email is blocked, because that information will be immediately exploited by spammers. We build our software suite because we found that mistakes in…

Its inaccurate to say that SPF, DMARC and DKIM setup this way is a "misconfiguration", It still allows anybody you are mailing to verify that email is from your mail server, and your domain, which is good enough for anti-spam purposes.

Setting SPF to neutral (or softfail) and DMARC to none just ensures stuff like mailing lists forwarding mail from your domain aren't automatically marked as spam.

In my experience it does not matter if you have very strict SPF and DMARC policies, with a good reputation IP address, and an old domain, both of which have never sent spam.

GMail will absolutely still spambox you.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#159

Post by natch »

Moru wrote: post #122
fx32s wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious that people have such diverging experiences with the spam filter. I think the claim that Google's filter is objectively worse should at least be supported by some evidence if you're going to make a bold statement like that. As another data point, for me and friends I it beats competitors by a large margin.

As a normal gmail user you won't notice this, all you see is that you get mail from your friends that you always mailed with. If you register on popular sites, their mail will also work. If however you are sitting on a new domain, sending mail to an old friend on gmail, it will very likely end up in the spam folder unless you are using a big provider that has reputation with google already. I guess it's another case…

If you never look in your spam folder you’ll never notice how utterly bad it is. Which is apparently the case for most people.
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