I just remember the post not long ago ""The “mail is hard” myth" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851880
Gmail marking email from me as spam
131–140 of 407 posts
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Consider physical junk mail... Where I live it takes a sticker 'no spam' glued to the mail box and no more junk happens
I've lived in several places where this practice is common and none where it remotely works - it's totally ignored. Where are you based?
I tend not to leave any specific info about myself online, so the answer would be pretty broad - mainland Europe
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#133I run an email security/monitoring business [0], and we hear this issue with Gmail a lot, in fact: we have been bitten by it as well during the early days. The problem at hand is that it is really hard to debug situations like this. Google won't tell you why a particular email is blocked, because that information will be immediately exploited by spammers. We build our software suite because we found that mistakes in…
No, it's incorrect to say that running an email server requires just "a bit more work". Google basically no longer allows low volume servers to send mail.
I wrote more about this here:
https://www.attejuvonen.fi/dont-send-email-from-your-own-ser...
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you post examples? In my opinion free email services either belong to other big corporations or provide lower quality service than gmail. Few bucks a month add up and can be considered expensive by many. I don’t like google and I pay for a different email account. I just wanted to remind that gmail may be hard to quit and that costs are subjective.
> Few bucks a month add up and can be considered expensive by many. I pay around 3$/month for Fastmail, I don't think it's expensive, an email address is the primary communication method everyone uses nowadays and it's useful every day.
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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#135Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…
"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.
I want to use Fastmail, but their minimum price for using your own domain is $50/year. At that price I can get Exchange Online with double the storage. And given that they have an office in the US, I would expect them to follow the same laws that Microsoft and Google have to regarding requests from government agencies.
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#136The email landscape is substantially more complex now than it was three decades ago. The poster seems to be frustrated that he is mostly getting technical explanations to his rather emotionally fueled question. He is literally phishing for an argument on the morals of a big company deciding he is a potential spammer without absolute proof. He made it clear that his opinion is that there should be a system in place at…
Brandon Long, is as ever, a helpful and respectful voice of reason on the sometimes fractious Mailop list
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but honestly I'd rather have some SPAM get through than get HAM marked and placed in the big fucking SPAM bucket I never check. This is why I like that my email provider ( https://mailbox.org/en/ ) simply rejects all messages detected as spam: False positives don't get lost in a spam folder I never check, instead the sender gets a mail delivery failure notice by their own mail server and at least get a notification…
but what if email is the only way to reach you? so i got a notification that you didn't get the email. fine. i still have no way to talk to you unless i sign up to some other email service and try it again. depending on the reason to email you, i may not care enough. (maybe i wanted to buy your service) if a customer emails me and i don't respond because i didn't get the email, i have a problem, not the customer. the…
> but what if email is the only way to reach you?
I have no idea if it actually is, but it might be a legal issue too in some jurisdictions. German law for example requires commercial sites to have an option for quick and electronic communication - Email is generally a valid choice. If your mail server rejects incoming mail (be it because it's overly sensitive, offline, or you never bothered setting it up etc), that could very well be considered as non-compliant.
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#138I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents. Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion. As a gmai…
> As a gmail user, I 100% appreciate keeping my inbox extremely clean. Google's spam filter is a welcome addition.
But you won’t know if Gmail flags legitimate email as a false positive and you will remain happy not knowing Gmail is secretly losing your emails.
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#139Gmail's ML models categorize plenty of Google's own emails as spam. I honestly don't think they are nefarious, just overly insistent. I remember email before Gmail's spam filters. Everyday was a task of deleting spam first then responding to emails.
This is the consequence of the spam filters doing a good job. I too remember when consumers would clamour for better spam detections and different companies would hawk products that purported to do so. But now that spam detection mostly works well for most people, it’s a forgotten issue. Now we have people on this thread questioning Google’s authority to filter spam because from their PoV, Google isn’t adding much va…
The problem is that Google errs too much on the it-is-spam side. Having to delete a few spam mails isn't a big issue if the alternative is losing legitimate mails because of overzealous filters.
Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam
#140The email landscape is substantially more complex now than it was three decades ago. The poster seems to be frustrated that he is mostly getting technical explanations to his rather emotionally fueled question. He is literally phishing for an argument on the morals of a big company deciding he is a potential spammer without absolute proof. He made it clear that his opinion is that there should be a system in place at…
I don't think OP stop replying, he seems pretty active on another thread of the same mailing list concerning another big player (MSFT) filtering out some messages for some reasons.
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailop@mailop.org/msg09066.html
As a hobbit* , I'm actually pretty happy this whole conversation is starting to gain more traction.
My domain is always green on every test I could run (mailtester.com & all) yet some of my mails go to the junk without any warning. At least warn postmaster when you decide to block a domain because of bad neighbour/hosting!
* This specific reply of the chain is a must read and is where learned that I'm actually a mail hobbit. https://www.mail-archive.com/mailop@mailop.org/msg08958.html