Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says • Hacker News Board

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#151

Post by throw0101a » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #29

wolco wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But will China be able to make the next leap on their own? It's one thing to copy but another to come up with the design on the first place.

The Swiss watchmaking industry was once largely focused on producing cheap copies of English and French watches. Today Swiss watchmakers are renowned for quality and innovation.

In the 1980s, electronics that said "Made in Japan" were well-regarded (still are today), but in the 1950s it was the opposite: they were seen as cheap. This was actually a joke in the movie Back to the Future.

See also Japanese cars from the 1970s versus the 1990s to today.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#152

Post by throw0101a » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

cocoggu wrote: post #106

ekianjo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.

Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in wester…

> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things?

Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China:

* https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#153

Post by throw0101a » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

cocoggu wrote: post #106

ekianjo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.

Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in wester…

> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people?

> But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...]

> It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise.

* https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#154

Post by aclsid » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #104

aclsid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of similar to North America in a way. And just like the Chinese, you guys don't realize it because as the saying goes, everybody thinks their crap doesn't stink. Sure in the case of China it is a more crude form of propaganda, but if you don't believe me, just try to find information about what happened in Ecuador just now in your newsmedia. That information was supressed by media conglomerates because of a pro-…

Kind of similar to North America in a way. Not really the same. Americans are taught to love an abstract, idealised version of America, an eagle perched atop a flag, and it doesn’t really work, half of Americans hate even that, and that’s fine, no one really cares. Whereas the Chinese are taught to love a specific leader of a specific party operating a specific system, etc. And the consequences for not complying are…

Oh nobody denies that you have more political freedoms, I'm talking about why for instance, would your society focus so much about China being bad, highlighting the differences, whereas countries like Vietnam, still a communist state, you get to see tourism articles and everything.

What Israel is doing to some Palestinians would also qualify as shady behavior, but what I'm saying is that I don't have a personal feud with any of those countries, and I would totally visit them. But I have friends and family that based on the amount of propaganda about China are refusing to buy certain products, use software like Wechat, etc. That is sophisticated propaganda in my opinion.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#155

Post by alfromspace » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

nnq wrote: post #114

ddiq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

> Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition ...?! Did you really write that?! Do you really believe that? WTF, man! Do you realize how that would sound in any other context? A few steps down this line and you'd use machine learning concepts to justify natzy ideas or stuff like that.

Pointing and sputtering is not an argument.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#156

Post by throw0101a » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #105

freyr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//

> Read up on what's happening today in Africa and Afghanistan. Or the many examples of state-sponsored corporate espionage and hacking. Are these not forms of invasion in 2019? I do recall a couple of countries invading Afghanistan, none of them named "China." If you're going to call building railroads, highways, power plants and other infrastructure in Africa an "invasion," that's just plain unreasonable. I get that…

On the debt:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#157

Post by alfromspace » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

phreack wrote: post #121

ddiq wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Machine learning will find these patterns all on their own. They're not worried about being ostracized for seeing the world for how it is.

Machine learning is based on sample data, which time and time again has been proven to be biased, producing errors due to racism which then get fed back into the system and perpetuate the cycle. It is not infallible and it does not reveal truths that people are 'worried' about seeing, it's a reflection of current mindsets.

It seems like you're taking "reflective of a reality I don't want to acknowledge" to mean biased.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#158

Post by alfromspace » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #62

Aperocky wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moles are not unique to China, it just happens that China currently happens to be the enemy. Most people whether immigrant or not just want to get the work done and go home.

> Moles are not unique to China, it just happens that China currently happens to be the enemy. The special position of China goes dramatically beyond that. I'm not sure you could downplay China's position more than what you just did. I'd almost confuse them for being Cuba by that description. For all but a few countries, stealing data on how to build the next great airplane, does not enable them to actually build it.…

Yeah...but do they have diversity? We win. /s

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#159

Post by JackFr » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

azernik wrote: post #48

sithadmin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swiss watchmaking industry was once largely focused on producing cheap copies of English and French watches. Today Swiss watchmakers are renowned for quality and innovation.

And going even farther back, the British industrial revolution was built on producing cheap copies of Indian textiles.

Well, they were cheaper because the industrial revolution was basically the British inventing the textile industry.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#160

Post by JackFr » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #112

cat199 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... using machines that british people invented. get the overall point, but not sure this is a good example.

US copied british factories by industrial espionage to bootstrap their own industry and eventually became the bigger industrial producer...

"On December 20, 1790, water-powered machinery for spinning and carding cotton was set in motion in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Based on the designs of English inventor Richard Arkwright, a mill was built by Samuel Slater on the Blackstone River. The Slater mill was the first American factory to successfully produce cotton yarn with water-powered machines. Slater was a recent English immigrant who apprenticed Arkwright's partner, Jebediah Strutt.

Samuel Slater had evaded British law against emigration of textile workers in order to seek his fortune in America. Considered the father of the United States textile industry, he eventually built several successful cotton mills in New England and established the town of Slatersville, Rhode Island."

https://www.thoughtco.com/richard-arkwright-water-frame-1991...