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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#151

Post by _bxg1 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #140

Studies, especially in recent years, have shown that punishment is not an effective way of improving on self-destructive behavior. Usually things like procrastination and substance abuse are irrational symptoms of emotional drain and hopelessness, and punishment exacerbates those problems. There was an HN post about it just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19487411 . Poverty and debt tend to also p…

Also, keep in mind that China has an economy right now that is in many ways precarious, and big parts of that include corruption and debt. That doesn't make this right, but it makes it more understandable and contextual, and may bode better for the rest of the world's countries which aren't in that kind of situation (and for future China).

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#152

Post by mruts »

godelski wrote: post #123
mruts wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. I wouldn't call that an almost certainty that you need a car. An almost certainty would be maybe under <.001%

> 5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. rephrasing: 95% of Americans take private transit to get to work. I would call that an almost certainty that you need a car.

If there was a 5% the market would crash 50% tomorrow. Would you call that an almost certainty that it wouldn't happen? You wouldn't hedge your risk? If there was a 5% that you would die tomorrow, you wouldn't feel concerned?

5% is huge.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#153

Post by coldtea »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #112
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

Driving being a privilege, not a right, is only awkward in the US because of how absurdly car dominant it is. Being unable to drive in many other developed countries is barely an issue for most people.

Well, what if you do one of jobs that require you to drive? Bus drivers, taxi drivers, truckers, delivery people, etc, are not lesser citizens...

Plus, who said people in the developed countries don't commute, or that even if they have public transport, having to and waste extra hour or hours in many cases (to wait at stops and to change buses or subway lines, etc), is small matter in the extra effort, free time, and health impact on the person doing it compared to being able to just drive there?

Not everybody in Europe lives in Amsterdam or some such city, nicely close to walking distance or a single public transit line to work.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#154

Post by gwright »

freedomben wrote: post #121
siruncledrew wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason why student debt and not other kinds of debt (e.g. credit card)? Also, how does the DMV know what someone’s debt history is?

Yes, because the government took over most student loans a few years ago[1], and they make the rules (and want you to pay). [1] https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Feds-take-o...

As a taxpayer, I want you to pay also.

I also want the government out of the educational loan business and think that some of the financial risk should be borne by the educational institutions.

Making educational loans dischargeable in bankruptcy sounds reasonable on the surface but it problematic when you consider that a newly minted college graduate basically has no assets. Allowing the loan to be dischargeable would encourage graduates to immediately declare bankruptcy to get rid of their student loans. Not sure what the solution is there other than not making the risky loan in the first place.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#155

Post by fooblitzky »

jolmg wrote: post #118
StudentStuff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only viable non-car using way to access these areas is an eBike, and even then some areas have super aggressive drivers that are happy to run you over. Unsurprisingly, people aren't too keen on walking/scootering/biking in these conditions :c

Can eBikes be taken long-distance to rural areas?

Possibly? The Tern GSD has a quoted range of 140 miles with the 900Wh battery pack. Of course, it would take you about 7 hours to cover that distance.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#156

Post by coldtea »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #136
vonmoltke wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being unable to drive in many other developed countries is barely an issue for most people. I don't think I agree with the "most" in that statement, at least in combination with "barely an issue".

To my knowledge, other developed countries where driving seems really necessary for most people are Canada and Australia, maybe NZ? Admittedly I'm far from an expert in this, but I live in Germany now, have visited a bunch of countries in Europe, plus Japan, and that's certainly the impression I get. Right now our family of 3 living in a sleepy part of Munich gets by fine without a car, and we've visited lots of litt…

"8 % of the EU workforce commutes to work in a different region" (NUTS 2 defined region: different province, city, etc).

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#157

Post by gwright »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #143
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a cyclist, and spent most of my life biking exclusively, but not everyone is in a position to replace their car. If your car commute is 45 minutes on the highway, a bicycle is not going to help you when you lose your license.

Right, and a 45 minute car commute that can't be replaced by public transit is...well, not uniquely American, but certainly a hell of a lot more common in the US than most other developed countries.

The situation seems a bit more nuanced than that:

https://daliaresearch.com/the-countries-with-the-longest-and...

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#158

Post by buttcoinslol »

ordu wrote: post #149
ConceitedCode wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there is a misunderstanding about the US credit system. Paying interest has 0 impact on your credit score. Plenty of ways to get a credit card without credit history (secured credit cards are typically easiest) and as long as you pay it off before the statement due date (typically 28-60 days after the charge) then you will not be charged any interest while building credit. Here's a quick overview of how a…

> Plenty of ways to get a credit card without credit history (secured credit cards are typically easiest) and as long as you pay it off before the statement due date How it works? What the reason for a bank to give credit without interest? I just do not believe it. System must have a way to get interest. If system says it charges no interest, it means that interest payments are hidden. Either behind transactions fees…

> How it works? ... Either behind transactions fees, or by fixed costs covering maintanance of credit card, or by some other ways.

You're correct, US credit card companies do still make a profit on those of us who pay off their balance in full every month and therefore pay no interest.[1]

Visa/MC/Discover/Amex all charge the merchants a percentage (~2%) to process a credit card transaction. I have a cashback card with no annual service fee which pays 1.5% cashback.

Let's say I spend $10,000.00 on this card in 1 year. Visa will collect $200.00 in merchant fees, pay me $150.00 in cashback, and gross profit of $50.00 on my account for 1 year.

Some cards charge an annual service fee which adds to the gross profit.

[1] It's possible there are some people who are a net loss to the card issuers due to gaming the rewards systems, but generally the issuer will make money on someone who pays $0 in interest.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#159

Post by wonderwonder »

AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

There is nothing more expensive than being poor. Once you hit a certain level of poverty especially if you become entangled in the criminal justice system it becomes readily apparent that the system is designed to simply milk you of any resources including your freedom as that can be profitable for corporations.

Poor people deal with obstacles that people with means never even think about. For example, Florida just voted to restore voting rights to felons and now the state legislature is attempting to change the will of the voting public to state that only felons that have all court costs and fines paid can vote.

Public defenders are another example, if you are poor and charged with a crime your defense is worth ~30 minutes of a low paid attorney's time which results in higher fines and/or jail time and the cycle continues.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#160

Post by coldtea »

mruts wrote: post #113
godelski wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what if you need a car for/to reach work? This is America. So the answer is almost certainly: "Yes, you need your car to reach work."

5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. I wouldn't call that an almost certainty that you need a car. An almost certainty would be maybe under <.001%

People familiar with Eartly customs of casual conversation do call 95% "almost certainty".
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