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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#151

Post by j16sdiz »

charlesdm wrote: post #86
kuhhk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a competitor of them, across the street from Huawei. It was common knowledge that they interviewed people without the intention to hire them, acted super interested, and asked increasingly pointed questions to get you to violate your NDAs, and describe projects you shouldn’t. And they would do the same to those they hired. These are personal anecdotes, but I’m not surprised by these accusations.

Hey, people are stupid. I don't think Huawei is the only company doing that..

They provide "scholarship" for "best innovator" in Hong Kong Universities. Years passed, the innovative idea are stolen, the scholarship are never paid.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#152

Post by luckylion »

make3 wrote: post #105
product50 wrote: post #100

To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today…

the quantity matters, and it's very clear that China did it a lot more. Also, Meng got arrested because we are in a state of law and she broke the law, not because some despot chose to

Are you sure? The NSA runs a global surveillance program, monitoring/copying most of the internet traffic, and industrial espionage (against all non-US states & companies, allies or not) is a stated goal of this program.

I don't know how well-funded the chinese IP theft program is, but I doubt it's much larger.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#153

Post by peteretep »

yumraj wrote: post #101
vkou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

> And it works, too. Look at the quality of life in China, compared to India... Or Vietnam. Can't say for Vietnam as I don't know much, but quality of life in India is much much better than quality of life in China. People in India have access to full Internet, have access to real Democracy, have freedom of speech, live free life, aren't afraid to speak their mind, minorities are not being thrown in concentration cam…

> but quality of life in India is much much better than quality of life in China

Just no.

> People in India have access to full Internet

Internet penetration in India is 25% compared to China's 71%. I suspect most people would take censored internet over no internet[0].

> have access to real Democracy

I suspect this is one of those hierarchy of needs things. India. India has 21% of its population living on under $1.90 a day, where China has 0.7% the same. Perhaps they can eat their ballot papers?[1]

> have freedom of speech, live free life, aren't afraid to speak their mind

Really though? "[India] ranks poorly at 138th rank out of 180 listed countries in the Press Freedom Index 2018 released by Reporters Without Borders (RWB)". That's _terrible_ for a supposed Democracy, even if China is worse. At least their censorship is out in the open...[2]

> minorities are not being thrown in concentration camps

No, they're just being killed with mob violence instead[3][4]

> Sure, they may not have as many life's luxuries, but I think most people will take a free-er life than a gilded prison.

I think you've not met many hungry people.

[0] http://www.pewglobal.org/2018/06/19/social-media-use-continu...

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty

[2] https://rsf.org/en/ranking/2018

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India#Mo...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_Indi...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#154

Post by j16sdiz »

Taniwha wrote: post #79
mehwoot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the idea, its the specific technology. took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

But why would anyone need to do that, you build one of these by starting with a cheap 3d printer and removing the print head, it's not a hard thing to make

This is related to a 2014 civil case. You can find more detail on https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/19/huawei_spied_us_jur...

This is a crimial follow-up to that case.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#155

Post by product50 »

peteretep wrote: post #146
product50 wrote: post #100

To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today…

> Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested Via a Canadian American extradition warrant that has existed for a loooong time before the arrest, and in such a way that Meng is protected from extradition if an independent Canadian judge doesn't think the case bears weight? Not quite sure how this is considered overreach. There's a reason that criminals fleeing to places without extradition treaties with the US is a…

Not an overreach but a testament to how strong US' global standing is. I bet only US could have pulled this off. No other country, despite what crimes Huawei conducted against them could have done this.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#156

Post by richardw »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #143
product50 wrote: post #100

To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today…

I am not sure if the phrase "They can rally up support from their allies" is not quite accurate, more like arm twisting (like when we bullied our allies to not join One Belt One Road and even our staunchest allies like Israel and South Korea jumped on board with the OBOR). However, I agree with you, the arrest of Meng did seem unreal. I consider myself to be very patriotic and I want my country (USA) to do whatever i…

Not an American but I'm not convinced America is in the wrong here. It's reasonable to complain and act when someone is cherry-picking rules. US companies can't compete on price but can on research. When that is stolen, you fight back with whatever you have available to you. Complaints to WTO, economic force, arrests (where warranted).

I also understand the Chinese perspective. People and countries have stolen tech forever. The US has during development. Long game means steal it now and take a few knocks. People will forget soon enough but you'll have changed economic trajectory permanently.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#157

Post by peteretep »

product50 wrote: post #155
peteretep wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested Via a Canadian American extradition warrant that has existed for a loooong time before the arrest, and in such a way that Meng is protected from extradition if an independent Canadian judge doesn't think the case bears weight? Not quite sure how this is considered overreach. There's a reason that criminals fleeing to places without extradition treaties with the US is a…

Not an overreach but a testament to how strong US' global standing is. I bet only US could have pulled this off. No other country, despite what crimes Huawei conducted against them could have done this.

> No other country, despite what crimes Huawei conducted against them could have done this

This isn't the first person Canada has extradited. Italy, China, Netherlands and Mozambique all make an appearance in the list of people worthy enough to also have Wikipedia pages[0].

European countries regularly refuse to extradite people to the US if they think they're at risk from the death penalty there.

America may be large and powerful, but a country asking one of its closest allies to extradite someone isn't an example of that.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_extradited_fro...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#158

Post by [deleted] »

luckylion wrote: post #152
make3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the quantity matters, and it's very clear that China did it a lot more. Also, Meng got arrested because we are in a state of law and she broke the law, not because some despot chose to

Are you sure? The NSA runs a global surveillance program, monitoring/copying most of the internet traffic, and industrial espionage (against all non-US states & companies, allies or not) is a stated goal of this program. I don't know how well-funded the chinese IP theft program is, but I doubt it's much larger.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#159

Post by roenxi »

richardw wrote: post #156
mark_l_watson wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if the phrase "They can rally up support from their allies" is not quite accurate, more like arm twisting (like when we bullied our allies to not join One Belt One Road and even our staunchest allies like Israel and South Korea jumped on board with the OBOR). However, I agree with you, the arrest of Meng did seem unreal. I consider myself to be very patriotic and I want my country (USA) to do whatever i…

Not an American but I'm not convinced America is in the wrong here. It's reasonable to complain and act when someone is cherry-picking rules. US companies can't compete on price but can on research. When that is stolen, you fight back with whatever you have available to you. Complaints to WTO, economic force, arrests (where warranted). I also understand the Chinese perspective. People and countries have stolen tech f…

The issue isn't really who is in the wrong, the issue is that China and America have different standards for determining what wrong means both formally and informally.

It is one thing to impose American standards on places like Pakistan with the Osama assassination, since they can't really fight back in a meaningful way. It is a big deal to assert something like that against China, who is effectively a military and economic equal of America. If Chinese leadership decides the business with Meng it is a political act, the ramifications could be quite far reaching.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#160

Post by everybodyknows »

rsj_hn wrote: post #148
mikejb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing was a movie, the other actually happens. Fair point on the comparison, but industrial espionage isn't a one-way street.

So which Soviet industrial secrets did the U.S. steal? Which Chinese industrial secrets did the U.S. steal? It certainly appears to be a one way street.

US DOD reportedly learned quite a bit about jet engine lubrication from a "stolen" MiG-25.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko

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