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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#91
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

This line of thinking is too black and white. What would incentive a company to invest millions in new technology, like a new cancer drug, if they have to give up their secrets as soon as they do? No one would bother inventing any at all. And what about nuclear weapons? Are we supposed to think that it's better if every tin hat despot could just download plans for an ICBM?

> What would incentive a company to invest millions in new technology, like a new cancer drug, if they have to give up their secrets as soon as they do? No one would bother inventing any at all.

Well, the incentives around research are a bit weird. I'm usually all-in on free market capitalism, but I have to admit that historically government sponsorship has a pretty great track record for research.

For your specific question though, the answer could easily be because someone paid them up front to develop a new cancer drug. There is no question that companies that synthesise drugs are incentivised to research new products and deploy them as a stream of new and more effective drugs entering the market will cause it to grow in size and hence increase their profits. It is a question of debate about whether the current American IP system or natural incentives would give a better result overall.

> And what about nuclear weapons? Are we supposed to think that it's better if every tin hat despot could just download plans for an ICBM?

Splitting hairs, but it is debatable if building ICBMs is 'private knowledge' for the grandparent comment. That sort of tech is probably more of a grey-area public-knowledge style. It certainly isn't protected by the IP system, because then someone would be selling ICBMs to tin hat dictators. It isn't used in products that are sold to private entities either (I hope!).

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#92

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

Ah yes, more unsubstantiated claims about Chinese tech and culture on HN. Can you back up a single thing you've claimed?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#94

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it.

Reminds me of the movie "Firefox" [1] with Clint Eastwood. The plot? An all-American hero sneaks deep into the UDSSR to steal a new high-tech aircraft. And I'm pretty sure Hollywood is still pumping out ideological crap like that.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083943/

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#95
post #87
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who you are or what your agenda is, but any sane person would argue that citing something that happened in early 1800s does not make the same thing OK in 2019.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita. If another country with a larger population matched us in productivity, they would be the #1 economy and would get benefits that I and many others living in the US enjoy. One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural rights, such as free speech, private property, etc.

Any country whose values contradict those values threatens me if they become the most economically powerful country. With this in mind, it's imperative that we pull up the ladder behind us if we want to maintain the lead that protects our values.

If/When China gets the lead, you can be certain that they'll pull up the ladder behind them, leaving us in a position of dependency.

I don't care if some podunk country does this. I do care if a country the size of China does this because my life is better so long as I'm on the winning team.

A big difference between the US and China, is that any foreigner can move to the US to contribute to and enjoy the benefits of being #1. If China becomes #1, that option won't be available in practical terms, because China is essentially a homogenous ethnostate with an almost impossibly difficult path to naturalization for those that were not born there.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#96
post #79
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the idea, its the specific technology. took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

But why would anyone need to do that, you build one of these by starting with a cheap 3d printer and removing the print head, it's not a hard thing to make

Why waste resources developing a solution when you can steal a solution that already exists?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#97
post #4

These look like serious charges: Defrauding four large banks into clearing transactions with Iran in violation of international sanctions. Conspiracy to obstruct justice by moving employees out of the United States so they could not be called as witnesses before a grand jury in Brooklyn. Conspiracy to defraud the United States by impairing, impeding, obstructing and defeating, through deceitful and dishonest means, t…

>But if this is just a bargaining chip to be exchanged for a few worthless face-saving trade deal "wins" for this administration, it will be disgrace If letting one person off the hook can benefit all americans through better trade, how is that a disgrace? China has apparently offered to balance the trade deficit with the US within 6 years https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-18/china-is-... their economy…

>If letting one person off the hook can benefit all americans through better trade, how is that a disgrace?

it's a disgrace for the rule of law and an independent judiciary.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#98
post #2

Speaking as a Canadian, this is already old news for us. There have been lively debates over on /r/canada, which went very one-sided (understandably) after China arrested two Canadians as leverage. [1] As someone who likes to follow geopolitics, I can't help but wonder if the timing of this extradition request was strategic. When Meng was arrested, Canada was in the middle of NAFTA/USMCA re-negotiations and our Prime…

Ah, yes, Canada has really been the target of Chinese hate lately

some gems:

'Canada is a white supremacist foreign enemy' -- Chinese state media accelerates propaganda against Canada

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-is-a-naive-ameri...

China Just Likened Canada to a ‘Whore’ For Firing John McCallum

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/8xynnv/china-just-likened...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#99

It is well known in the optical networking space that Huawei stolen the entirety of Nortel's DWDM proprietary data and research, and used it to build their own dwdm platform product line.

I wonder what Nortel's management and Canada's national security did to prevent that from happenning.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#100
To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today.
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